The agenda-free ‘Quran man’

This Britain First Facebook meme is priceless!

The caption tells us that ‘The Quran Man’ had no agenda. Oh really?

Then what exactly did he expect to achieve by approaching Muslims to explain their faith to them, Quran in hand and a few cherry-picked verses marked in case he forgot them?
What positive outcome could ever come from lecturing believers in the street about a faith that you don’t share?

BF German Quran man FB meme.png
Not so very long ago Dutchy Fransen was making a nuisance of herself outside a Mosque when a policeman reminded her of some of the sillier verses in the Bible. She was outraged!

How is this different?

We’re sorry that this man was punched. Here at EBF we’re always sorry to learn that violence has broken out. There should be better, more civilised ways of dealing with political and religious differences than by hitting or even killing each other (Biffers take note). But to suggest that ‘Quran man’ wasn’t deliberately trying to provoke just that sort of reaction is ludicrously transparent.

Come off it, Britain First. This is one of the most transparent lies you’ve ever told.

Are you starting to get desperate?

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68 thoughts on “The agenda-free ‘Quran man’

    • Do you really want to get into tit for tat about the stupid, aggressive, bigoted passages in all 3 of the Abrahamic religions? If so I suggest you do so elsewhere. We’re not really going to be interested in your special pleading about why your version of Abrahamic tradition is so much better than the other two.

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      • This video is Muslims saying what I’m saying they believe.
        Everything in the Quran.
        To them there is no “Radical Islam”. Its all just Islam.

        Watch “It’s Not the ”Radical Shaykh” it’s Islam – Fahad Qureshi”

        The video of the Islamic teacher in the 6 minute video says normal Muslims believe whatever the Quran says regarding murder, killing, and the conditions for such. We should not call them radicals because ALL Muslims believe these things. They are normal Muslims.

        Quran 5:33 says:

        “The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;”

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        • “Those who make war upon Allah and His messenger”! There are some equally brutal passages in the Bible as I’m, sure you know. I’m certain that the Westboro Baptist church would say something similar about Christianity – as would large portions of the American religious right.

          I’d like to contrast your video with this report of 70,000 Muslim clerics issuing a fatwa against IS, Daesh, Al-Qaeda and all Islamic terrorist groups.
          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/70000-indian-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-isis-the-taliban-al-qaida-and-other-terror-groups-a6768191.html
          I think they’re likely to be far more representative of Muslims – certainly of those Muslims I know. I live and work among Muslims all the time and I’ve never yet met one who isn’t frustrated and annoyed about the way that their faith is being hi-jacked by extremists. They’re also distressed by the way that people generalise to say the extremists represent all Muslims in a way they never did when discussing Christian terrorism. For example, I don’t recall anyone ever claiming that the IRA represents all Christians, all Catholics or even just all Irish Catholics. It would be like claiming that Donald Trump, the American hate-monger represents Christianity which, of course would be a ludicrous position to take.

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            • I think that was precisely my point. 70,000 Muslim clerics seems pretty representative to me. As does my personal experience of Muslims here in UK who most certainly do not want to hurt anyone.

              Please don’t inflict your fundamentalist Christian paranoia on to this blog – it’s hardly a reasonable stance to take. Yes -I had a look at your blog. Your uncritical religious stance is just as fanatical in many ways as any other extreme religious perspective. Your stance on creation, on homosexuality, on the infallibility of the God of Abraham and the writings attributed to him are no different from those of ISIS (except you haven’t the courage to go around killing people as your literalist version of God commands). At least I assume you haven’t stoned any adulterers, homosexuals or Sunday workers to death or taken Canadian slaves, have you?

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            • Oh read Leviticus. You seem to believe everything in the bible is true. If you don’t think you should be stoning people to death for being gay, perhaps you’d explain how you know which bits of the Bible to ignore.

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                • Actually no – I’m a married woman with two beautiful children and a husband who I adore. But would it matter if I was gay? What does your version of God say should be done with gay men?? Or with women who speak in church for that matter?

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                    • No – but I am always irritated when people use one particularly vicious interpretation of a religious holy book to try to persuade us to hate another equally vicious interpretation of another holy book. I already hate extremism of all stripes. I just don’t hate ordinary Muslims any more than I hate ordinary Christians. I have a very low opinion of both Christian and Muslim extremists though and I really don’t like the propaganda techniques used by extremist Christians to try to get me to discriminate against ordinary people on religious grounds. But this is becoming really pointless. Please take your religiously-motivated bigotry elsewhere. It really isn’t appreciated here.

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                    • I think my point is that you have no more evidence or moral right to your position than any other extremist. I don’t defend or attack any religion – but I do see tham for the flawed belief systems they are. Whether the flaws come from man or God is a moot point and I have no answer for that. I really don’t know whether God is viciousor just men who misattribute their own hatred to Him’Her.

                      And with that I’ll leave this exchange. It’s pointless and becoming sillier by the minute.

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                    • You don’t know enough to have an opinion. This much is clear.
                      Do some reading first.
                      Nabeel Qureshi’s latest book is Answering Jihad.
                      Hos New York Times best seller is “Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus”.
                      He was raised in a loving Muslim family in the USA after his parents imigration from Pakistan.
                      He had a Christian friend who challenged him to think critically about the claims of Christianity and Islam.
                      Nabeel became a Christian while earning honors as a Doctor of Medicine.
                      Highly recommended.

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              • This is an opinion of a Norwegian named:
                John Olav Ytreland

                20. MARCH 2016 AT 11:54

                “I wish Norwegians could be more realistic about this. Most people here despise Christianity and they seem to think that Islam is flawless. The problem is that the next few years might be difficult financially. Productivity is at an all time low, but those convenient oil money have disguised this problem. With low oil prices it may not be possible to play this game for much longer. I wonder how much compassion there’s going to be left then.”

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              • ﭑﭒﭓ
                I’m doing your homework for you.
                Half of it. The worst part.
                Now you show me were God told Jews or Christ followers to Crucify or chop off body parts.

                5:32 

                ﭑﭒﭓﭔﭕﭖﭗﭘﭙﭚﭛﭜﭝﭞﭟﭠﭡﭢﭣﭤﭥﭦﭧﭨﭩﭪﭫﭬﭭﭮﭯﭰﭱﭲﭳﭴﭵﭶﭷﭸﭹﭺ

                SAHIH INTERNATIONALBecause of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.”

                5:33 

                ﭻﭼﭽﭾﭿﮀﮁﮂﮃﮄﮅﮆﮇﮈﮉﮊﮋﮌﮍﮎﮏﮐﮑﮒﮓﮔﮕﮖﮗﮘﮙﮚﮛﮜﮝﮞﮟ

                SAHIH INTERNATIONALIndeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,”

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                • The old testament is very keen on stoning. Jesus said to follow Mosaic law (the adulteress he advocated for notwithstanding). Are you saying there’s a qualitative difference between stoning someone to death or crucifying them? Which would you say is acceptable behaviour?

                  #if neither is acceptable would you be kind enough to confirm thatyou think Christ’s advocacy of Mosaic law and Paul’s advocacy of stoning were incorrect?

                  Don’t underestimate the knowledge of agnostics like me. We often know what the holy books say even though we’re not sure we believe them.

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                    • Indeed.That’s why I find it so frustrating when fundamentalist Christians cherry-pick from it to pretend that the NT is only about love. We both know there’s much more in there than just love. There’s real malice as well.

                      I don’t profess to know whether any religion is correct or whether it’s all just made-up myth. But I do know that it’s unfair of you to criticise followers of one religion for issues that are just as problematic in your own, especially when so many of that religion’s devotees are so adamantly opposed to the behaviours you accuse them of.

                      Perhaps you should remove the more from your own eye before complaining about the speck in your brother’s.

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                    • I’m not defending Islam. I don’t defend any religion. I see the extremist followers all 3 Abrahamic religions (as opposed to the reasonable ones) as just as bad as each other. I also see much to be praised in the followers of all 3 Abrahamic religions.

                      Those devotees who dismiss all the followers of other faiths based upon the actions of a minority are the root of the problem. For example you’re happy to judge all Muslims by the actions of extremists but presumably wouldn’t judge all Christians by the vitriolic standards of the likes of Donald Trump and his vicious, discriminatory supporters.

                      There’s a difference between fair appraisal and enabling injustice.

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                    • Incidentally I think you’ll find that “the most cruel subjugation of people the world has ever seen” is a dubious honour with many contending candidates – many of them Christian. Do some homework, yourself!

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                    • As you know Christ is refuted to have stated he came to uphold the law of Moses (those found in the Torah). With that comment he endorsed all the OT cruelty and added the new NT concept of eternal damnation to boot. The OT had only ‘sheol’ (the grave). It’s a very disingenious reading of the NT that denies this. This has led to much oppression throughout the ages and still does. Not that most modern Christians follow those barbaric practices but neither do most Muslims. There are unfortunately some fanatics in both religions who do.

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                    • 16“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

                      17“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

                      18“For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

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                    • So v18 confirms Mosaic law with all its barbarity. I’m not trying to attach Christianity here, by the way – just making the point that all reasonable people accept that ALL 3 Abrahamic religious texts contain barbarities that their modern followers reject.

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                    • It’s a literal one.

                      If no part of the law can be removed until the end of the world then the law stands in its entirety. Since ‘the law’ for a Jewish Rabbi like Jesus meant the Torah it includes all the barbarity handed down by Moses, including stoning people to death for trivia like picking up sticks on the Sabbath, having sex out of wedlock (adulterous or not) and being gay (a characteristic, not a lifestyle choice) etc.

                      Of course, I’m not suggesting that most modern Christians follow the word in this way. They clearly understand that this stuff is outdated and disobey Jesus’ explicit instructions accordingly. The point I’m making is that most Muslims also understand about the outdated stuff in their holy book.

                      I contend that it is unfair and deceitful for the adherent of one Abrahamicfaith (Christianity) to blame all the followers of another Abrahamic faith (Islam) because their Holy book contains the exact same type of flaws that Christianity own does. Actually that’s not only unfair – it’s also very hypocritical.

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                    • From Galatians, the Bible

                      6“knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

                      17“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!

                      18“For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

                      19“For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.

                      20“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

                      21“I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
                      Under the law, the punishment for sin required death. All sin ment eternal seperation from God.
                      Jesus fulfilled the requirement for death by giving His perfect life as a sacrifice for us. Thus fulfilling the law.
                      T

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                    • I always struggled with that sacrifice thing. Seems a bit pagan to me. God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. Couldn’t he just have forgiven us for the sins of the fathers without all the scapegoating?

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                    • If God arbitrarily just forgives, which I’m certain He can do, still leaves a debt on the books, a debt to be settled. God is love and God is just, God is perfect, God is Holy.
                      Yes. God embodied flesh , He stepped into humanity. That is good news.

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                    • There’s no debt if God (the only ‘creditor’) waives it. The whole crucifixion is illogical. Especially since ressurection negates the sacrifice anyway.

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                    • “13Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who hangs on a tree”fn),

                      14that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
                      Galatians 3

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                    • There are atrocities committed for all sorts of religions. It doesn’t make every religious person culpable (unless you’d like to accept responsibility for the IRA & UDA bombings and the atrocities in the former Yugoslavia and modern rural Kenya).

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                    • 12Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”fn

                      13Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who hangs on a tree”fn),

                      14that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

                      15Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.

                      16Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”fn who is Christ.

                      17And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,fn that it should make the promise of no effect.

                      18For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gaveit to Abraham by promise.

                      19What purpose then does the lawserve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made;and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

                      Galatians 3 is the best place to find clarification on the Abrahamic law.

                      Islam just says,”your good deeds must outweigh your bad deeds.”

                      Completely different.

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                    • I think the time has come to refocus. This blog is dedicated to opposing Britain First’s neo-nazism. It’s not a forum for evangelism. Time to call a halt to this distraction from our true purpose.

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                    • You have to study the historicity of Muhammad to know what I mean.
                      Islam us a hybrid religion/ political ideology.
                      1. Conquest is intertwined in Quranic doctrine.
                      2. Physical Jihad is required and moderates persecuted.
                      3. Islam is Theocracy with no seperation of church and state.
                      4. Like Mormonism, Muhammad used ultra misogynistic doctrine to advance his ideology thru wives, sex slaves, selling people as slaves, unprovoked raids, doctrines of murder, honor killing, apostate killing. Johseph Smith didn’t go as far as Muhammad though.
                      We know have 27 confirmed honor killings a year in the USA according to the FBI and DOJ. Mostly young girls. Perhaps thousands more we can’t prove because families typically don’t talk to authorities.
                      4. Muhammad made it Quranic doctrine to not question his position as prophet or you may suffer damnation.
                      5. If your father is Muslim, Islamic doctrine says you are born Muslim, taking away free will.

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  1. That final comment seems weird. In Judaism, the religion is passed through the blood line of the mother. You are born into the Jewish faith. So no free-will there.
    Anyway, by the by, that contentious verse is a list of possible punishments including exile. Life was much bloodier and violent in the past. The Spanish inquisition for starters.
    I think religions go through schisms and periods of violence. Christianity has emerged from this, Islam is going through it.

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    • Christianity has no more emerged than has Islam. Violent Christians still exist and in recent years have been very destructive worldwide. There are terrorists operating in the name of both religions right now.

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