“Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.”
The second of Britt’s characteristics of fascism is so unBritish it’s really hard to see how anyone could possibly combine this profound malice with the extreme Nationalism of the first characteristic. And yet that’s exactly what Britain First tries to do.
Their contempt for the human rights of non-white citizens (British or otherwise) is breathtaking. Britain First regularly ignores and undermines established legal process to call for the execution and torture of Muslims, Asians, immigrants and others despite their being acquitted of crimes or indeed, not even accused of any.
For Britain First the fact that someone worships in a Mosque is enough to warrant them being gang-raped, burned alive, beaten to death or even sent to gas chambers (we wonder where they got that idea from).
One of the most common themes within Britain First’s propaganda is their hatred for the European Convention on Human Rights and the UK Human Rights Act. The call for both these pieces of law to be revoked goes out almost daily in one form or another.
Like every other fascist group, Britain First is committed to removing Human Rights for all but themselves. This makes them everyone’s enemy. If you’re not a Biffer yourself you’d be at risk if the Biffers ever gained power in UK.
Based on the article ‘The 14 characteristics of Fascism’ by Lawrence Britt
ExposingBF Blog 
They’re not only calling for and condoning execution/torture/rape etc for muslims, asians and immigrants in general, but also us “great unwashed, liberal, lefty loonies” – i.e, anyone who doesn’t support BF!
It makes one wonder why they just don’t all voluntary get on a boat themselves and go and inhabit some uninhibited island so they can all be their lives away from the rest of the civilisation. They can take along other extremist groups too like ISIS and have their “crusade” ala Battle Royale or something.
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Terry, after reading very many of your posts and replies to mine I very much consider you to be pretty much a free spirit and really concerned with the subject of this blog. Therefore I commend to you and to all other EBF members what I consider to be an illuminating article on “The Upside-Downside World of University Human Rights” an Open Letter to to the UK National Union of Students by Denis McEoin.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5939/university-human-rights
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Terry, there are very few-if any-uninhabited islands in the world and certainly none large enough to accommodate the 200,000 ISIS militants,plus their tanks,rocket launchers, armoured carriers and all their sex slaves plus BF,the EDL,BNP and the UAF.
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Ah well, then they’ll have to live in an overcrowded island together. It shouldn’t be a problem seeing as none of them care about rights and whatnot!
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Terry,I would have wanted my post on the Islamization of Paris to have appeared on THIS blog where it is very pertinent but for some reason it would not appear when I pushed the “Comment” button!!
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David, who said anything about giving them weapons whether their own or weapons we’ve “given” to them? Also it is completely inconceivable to cover anyone that is not in the UK and as the vast majority of ISIS is in Iraq, Afghanistan etc it would hardly be a much of an issue. The evidence is that ISIS is not in the UK and the little support they do have are nut jobs who quickly realise the error of their ways and pay the price for their decision. All these groups would quickly turn on themselves as soon as they got rid of their perceived enemy so it would be perfectly easy to send over more when it was called for. Also this is really hypothetical and not in anyway a reality. Also why, oh why, as a supposedly civilised society would we force these sex slaves to join ISIS when they are just that slaves being held against their will? But this is all a moot point so shall we leave it there?
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ebfblogger,I don’t know if you are active at the weekends but if you are may I respectfully ask you to complete the moderation process on a large number of my comments over the next few days?
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That’s done now, David. I won’t get to look at the link you posted about Paris for a while as we have old friends staying with us from my home town this weekend. Maybe someone else will be able to find time to look at it and comment on it.
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ebfblogger, I do hope that by the time you read this post you will have had a great time with your friends!
Dear lady, I have to admit that since I started looking into BF and its attitude on human rights for muslims I have been doing my very best not to conjoin or conflate the excesses of Islamists with muslims per se. However, there is no possible doubt that muslims in France seem to be doing their level best to do BF’s work for them. It is extremely difficult to understand how we in our own way could prevent BF from latching onto it or deal with them if they began using it.
I realise that you are not exactly enamoured of the Gatestone Institute but it does often publish extremely well researched articles and one of these is once again by Soeren Kern who has an impressive biography I submit. The Islamisation of France in 2014. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4978/france-islamization
Sadly,it would seem that muslims in France are by their behaviour in public denying the human rights of non-muslim and “moderate”? muslim French citizens and defying the secular laws of that country. Just imagine the huge outcry that would ensue if such outlandish behaviour came to the UK!
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ebfblogger, there is also a, to my mind, scary video on this subject.
Islamization of Paris a Warning to the West. http://www.cbn.com/tv/1432527833001
If this became a problem in the UK just think what BF would do with such powerful ammunition!
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David I have to ask – why do you continually point us in the direction of a source that you know we dismiss the validity of? As for the poll mentioned in the article, it samples a small portion of the French population covering the age ranges mentioned and then effectively extrapolates for the rest of the entire population which is mathematically inaccurate and frowned upon. Not to mention that apart from Britain the original source of the poll states that 15+ year olds were asked yet no graphics were provided. Frankly the whole nature of the poll leads me to questions its partiality and validity. Quite frankly the rest of the article merely seems to address why extremism is bad except focusing relentlessly on ISIS. Also there is a move by the government to remove the Human Rights Act which enshrines much of the European convention of human rights which many people seem to complain about even though it is what is protecting us and many people are encouraging the government to scrap the act so I think your argument there falls rather flat.
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grizzlyvamp, you are I believe 24 or 25? At your age I too was altruistic to a fault,unwilling to accept ANYTHING remotely right of centre and reading left wing newspapers exclusively-Ring a bell?!
What you are in effect saying is that you are more intelligent, more worldly-wise, more widely traveled,more knowledgeable on Islam than a man who has a most impressive biography has traveled in 100 countries,very many in the Middle East and who has advised on militant Islam to many learned bodies. If at 25 you are all these things-or ANY of them-I salute you! If not then I treat your criticism with the disregard it deserves.Anyway,it is a long article and I doubt that you read much of it!
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grizzlyvamp,you must surely have been reading a completely different article than the one I referred you to!
Why should 15 year olds not feature in this article? The author;s sources were all available to anyone and why on earth do you quibble that the article condemns extremism? Do you then consider it laudable??
If you honestly fail to understand the problem for many non-muslim citizens in France at this time I must be very concerned about your fairness and judgment. If it happened in the UK just imagine what BF would make of it!!
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I am 25 not that my age should matter, honestly I don’t bother with newspapers and frankly will accept anything as long as it is well reasoned, un-abusive and largely in favour of true equality. In my experience anything to the right whilst has some semblance of fairness intrinsically is unfair to those who are unable to work or require special measures to work due to long term illness or disability. Having been around disability for much of my life and am in fact dyspraxic. In fact had the dice rolled just a bit further along the dyspraxia spectrum I could have found myself considered physically disabled due to fine and gross motor skills being so underdeveloped that I would be unable to walk in addition to the learning difficulty side and so sympathise heavily with those who are physically unable to look after themselves and need the benefits they get but are suffering because those benefits are being cut. Its funny how that could have been me changes perspective. That is why I dislike your attitude towards Islam so much – I see the marginalisation it causes and know what sort of affect it had. I was unfortunate enough not to be diagnosed until I started university – before that it was always just fine and gross motor skills problems and I never got all the help I could have had to help me understand. Don’t get me wrong I’m not complaining but don’t think for one second that just because you are older, have more experience and know more about Islam that your view on Islam is more right than mine – too often you break things down simplistically when it is often much more complicated than you make out. My experiences have shaped who I am and continue to do so but not once did I ever imply or intended to imply that I was more intelligent, more worldly-wise, more widely travelled or more knowledgeable on Islam than you
What I am saying is that I have compassion for human beings as much as possible even when I don’t always live that out. As to recognising when there is something suspect with a poll which therefore brings up the validity of the poll and therefore any source using that poll in such a way as this source is using it.You very much are putting words in my mouth – not once did I say 15 year olds should not feature in the article. I merely correctly pointed out that the poll mentions the 15-17 year old demographic and yet provides no graphical evidence for that group yet does for all the other demographics. Also it is laughable that in the UK they didn’t ask any 15-17 year olds yet did in the rest of the countries covered by the poll. That more than makes me suspect that those who were polled were carefully preselected in an attempt to swing how the poll would go. I on those grounds reject the polls validity and rejected its conclusions due to its assumptions based on extrapolation as I said in my earlier post. I have nothing against criticism of Islam – what I am against is an exclusive full frontal assault on Islam that is unfair when Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism and many other religions (including atheism for the purposes of this particular argument) have been just as guilty of atrocities as certain so called Islamic people. All I keep hearing is a single-minded determination to vilify an entire religion and I am sick of it. Mainstream media is almost as bad as these far right groups and it infuriates me when those on benefits and immigrants are also vilified especially when there is no evidence of this other than a very small number of high profile cases and shows such as benefits street displaying the small number who are exploiting the system being taken out of context.
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SO sorry grizzlyvamp but I have studied ALL the “major” religions and I have found that of them all only Islam is primarily an ideology with a veneer of religion,it is cravenly misogynistic,advocates not integrating with non-muslims(remember the Trojan Horse school rumpus in Birmingham),dislikes music dislikes dogs,always demands special treatment(separate swimming pools and changing rooms) calls for women and men to be segregated in mosques and university halls, calls for special rooms/areas in commercial premises for prayer, muslims wont handle alcohol or pork in supermarkets(so why do they take jobs there?), go on demonstrations with placards saying Kill British Soldiers,Kill British Policemen,Kill all Jews,in France block streets and even roads for prayer, and burn thousands of cars in the banlieus threaten the LGBT community,permit the taking of Infidel girls and women as sex slaves-I could go on. All this because in their holy book there are verses advocating and permitting all the above(apart from the cars of course).
Because of all this I consider that it is a sizeable miracle that there are so many very well educated,sophisticated,extremely likeable,well integrated and friendly muslims in society who either ignore their holy book or refuse to countenance the violence and misogyny contained in it. Could you point out to me any similar commands in Christianity,Hinduism,Sikhism,or New Age Buddhism(despite their “war” on Islam in Myanmar(Burma). Do you still not understand my intense dislike of Islam.I always thought that all human kind is supposed to be equal!? I cannot think of a single Islamic country which fully subscribes to,and practises, full human rights.Finally,the sheer scale of Islamic militancy and terror has never been equaled in the history of man. Eminent Professors Bernard Lewis,Bill Warner and Sam Harris have calculated that Islam’s armies,groups and individuals have killed 270 million.
Finally, am I ever to see from you if ANYTHING even just right of centre is acceptable. I would bet you every penny I possess that as you grow older your stance will move to the right!
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I feel I have to object here, David, becaused some of what you’re saying comes across very ignorant! Having hung out with muslims and deem them as my friends, well, unless my eyes and ears decieved me, they very much enjoy, not only listening to music, but also dfancing too :O ! One even has a pet dog – even more of a shocker! Look David, there are conservative muslims just as there are conservative christians. Segregation of sexes exist invariably in India; it’s a shame in this day and age, but it’s hardly fair to make out that only muslims do this. As for “demanding special treatment”, I take it you’re referring to the recent news that BF and EDL want to protest? Look more into it and you’ll find that the park caters for many groups for many situations – this event is not unique. They can’t eat pork, but I couldn’t see why they couldn’t handle it. And if so, so what? I’d imagine vegans don’t particularly like handling meat either – do you bash them for it?
Speaking of demonstrations with people holding up such placards, need I refer you to the christian group Westboro Baptist Church again? I think we’ve covered just about everything before. Man, there are times where I think to myself, “y’know, David isn’t so bad. A little misguided, perhaps, but he’s OK deep down.!” Then you spout a load of nonsense and make me sigh.
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Terry, of all the EBF supporters on here I have come to regard you as my favourite commenter,always doing your very best to be unbiased and reasonable. However, there is one most important statement of mine that you may have missed but one I repeat constantly that I always have and always will as long as I am on this earth. It is that I never conjoin Islam with Muslims per se! The huge problem for individual muslims is that Muhammad was a violent and extremely flawed man but being Islam’s Prophet he is considered the Perfect man and muslims should follow his words and actions without exception. This teaching agreed by all imams and muslim scholars is immutable. This,of course, gives complete licence to behave in a way not acceptable in any democracy and the Islamists and extremists in muslim society always take full benefit(if that is the right word).
By the way two points 1) Why do you and others on here always quote the Westboro Baptitist Church,Unlike my ability to give you dozens of Islamic violent outlets is this Church the ONLY one you can come up with?
2) Of course many,many muslims are as I have described MANY TIMES before_Read my posts,please! NOT ORTHODOX(Catholics using contraception as an illustration) have dogs,love all forms of music,even drink alcohol, don’t ask for separate swimming areas/pools, don’t pray five times a day and don’t demand special areas in which to pray,and,most importantly,integrate extremely well.All this in the terms of the Qur’an,Hadith and Sunnah would make them as much Infidels as non-muslims and subject to death if they happened to stay in many Islamic countries.Do you,PLEASE,at last get what I am on about??
I am not referring to the Luton Protest by BF. I also urge you to read the article I commented on in my reply to grizzlyvamp.
I will excuse your last sentence but it is supremely wrong and surprisingly unfair.
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David, I felt I had to address you in my last post as you said, I quote, ” but I have studied ALL the “major” religions and I have found that of them all only Islam is primarily an ideology with a veneer of religion,it is cravenly misogynistic,advocates not integrating with non-muslims(remember the Trojan Horse school rumpus in Birmingham),dislikes music dislikes dogs,always demands special treatment(separate swimming pools and changing rooms) calls for women…”
I wanted to address this paragraph specifically; hinduism has a primitive caste system entrenched in its very culture, which, if you’ve studied all religions, then you should know that Islam isn’t the only one to have all these flaws, hence me saying that is is unfair to say so.
I have noticed that you keep repeating that you “never conjoin Islam with Muslims per se”, but you are as an extension slating muslims too when you use terms like “they” “their” “them” when referring to all these bad things happening within society, but they, their, them who exactly? Muslims, right? Yes, I know what you’re getting at, and to an extend, I can’t not disagree with you. If most muslims are not “orthodox”, then what is your problem exactly? Extremists? Then join the club as we are too. No true Scotsman, eh?
Yes, muslims worship an extremely flawed prophet (from a time where his atrocities were cool and kosher compared to our present morality) as does any religious follower with their respective prophets and gods. Isn’t yahweh considered to be a perfect, an all-loving and forgiving being? Someone who is/was a megalomaniacal, vicious and nasty piece of shit (by my standards) who carried out convoluted atrocities for, I don’t know, shits and giggles? As I said to grizzlyvamp in another thread, if these gods existed (aren’t they all one and the same?), along with their prophets, I would be all of their enemy as I oppose most things they stand stood for. Fortunately then, not only do I not believe in their existence, but those who do, are nothing like how they, according to your implications, should be. Thankfully, most of us are not so barbaric towards one another now.
I use the Westboro lot as an example for extreme (orthodox?) christians as they are very comparable with your previous comment, to paraphrase, “holding up derogative placards when they take to the streets (to paraphrase)”. Perhaps there are others, yes. But currently, they are the only one that springs to mind and have enough media exposure for me to assume you know who they are.
Criticise Islam by all means, but why just Islam? Why not your very own equally destructive and invidious religion too? Do you honestly believe that Islam is a true evil awaiting for everybody’s mind to absorb it? You say you’re OK with muslims, per se, but not Islam, but what makes one a muslim? Do you believe they all have some agenda to divide and conquer us and thus islamify us all? If you potentially have a small number of days left, then again I ask, what are you trying to achieve here? By now you should realize we have all strong convictions with our views, as you do.
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Terry, a MUCH more reasonable reply from you,thank you. Just two points. As I have pointed out on another blog in response to Grizzlyvamp,Islam is not only extremely unpleasant as a religion but extremely dangerous as an ideology which most of it actually is. The correct word ISLAM comes not from the word “salaam” meaning peace/welcome but from its ROOT WORD Al-Silm meaning Submission or Surrender-to Allah. It is this root word that is understood by ISIS and all other terrorist groups and Q8v12 “I will instil terror into the hearts of the Infidels,strike off their heads and strike off from them every finger tip” is their battle cry -Charming. Q22 v9 “As for the unbelievers for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron-rods” There are MANY more like these in the Qur’an Have you ever seen a similar exhortation from any other major faith/ideology.
Then,of course, is the supremacy factor of Islam to be taken into consideration. The Qur’an makes abundantly clear that in the concept of Jihad,holy war,as above it is the ultimate aim to conquer the whole world and submit it to the one true faith,the law of Allah..This so-called “holy” book also makes abundantly clear that muslims must avoid contact with or living among non-muslims. Q 5 v51″Believers do not take Jews or Christians as friends ,they are just one another’s friends. If anyone of you take them then then he is surely one of them.God will not guide unbelievers”-there are many more commands like this.
Lastly but certainly not least-in fact probably the most important- is that muslims who are,of course,born muslim, if they later in life decide that they do not want to continue in their “faith”face certain death. This penalty for apostasy is agreed by the leading Islamic school of jurisprudence,the Al-Azhar University in Cairo and the three other schools.This is just the worst aspect of Islam I believe but just one of the reasons why I have so much time for non-orthodox muslims and so much pity.
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Often I have to eat halal meat slaughtered by slitting the animal’s throat- a number of times on occasion-without stunning it. I really do not want a prayer dedicated to Allah proclaimed over it but I do not violently protest about it.
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How do you feel about Kosher, David? Just out of interest.
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ebfblogger,Shechita practiced by Jews is, as you of course know, precisely the same process as the Islamic one except-as far as I know-that no prayers are said whilst slitting the animal’s throat. The type and range of allowed and forbidden foods for the Arabs and Jews was laid out in Deuteronomy and Leviticus.As Jesus said that only food exiting the body as excreta was unclean then as I am neither Jew not Muslim I eat what I like-especially delicious pork ribs and all types of shell fish and some excellent burgundies and Chablis
A goodish attempt to unsettle me..
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Just trying to clarify your reasoning, David. I take it then that your objection isn’t about cruelty but about prayers offered to Allah. Is that your position on Halal food?
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As a Christian I would obviously prefer NOT to eat halal only food as the prayer to Muhammad recited over halal slaughter is not exactly welcome to me and many other Christians. I think that’s fair don’t YOU?
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ebfblogger,did you have the inclination and/or find the time to read any of the Gatestone articles I gave references to. I somehow doubt that even you could label them as being biased or not well researched unless you were sympathetic to Hamas or to orthodox Islam?
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If you want me to respond, David it might be better if you didn’t set up a false ‘either/or’ bind in advance. It’s not for you to decide what my position might be based upon your own predecided assumptions.
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Terry, your response this morning just reminded me that I meant to reply to this post of yours days ago. Your idea of a “load of nonsense” is just what I believe of a number of your efforts but until now I have refrained from using such an epithet!
Unfortunately for the concept of human rights is that one expression of it for one individual or many very often infringes the rights of another so that universal human rights is IMO an impossible thing to achieve. Even the magnificent 1948 UN Declaration on Human Rights has been queried and altered by CDHR(the Cairo DHR) whereby the Islamic nations altered or deleted a number of its articles because they infringed Shari’a Law,the observance of which infringes many human rights and so on and on ad infinitum.
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Christians also have difficulty with human rights as so often demonstrated by the many cases opposing human rights and equality legislation brought by the Christian Legal Centre (& generally not upheld by the courts).
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Actually, the Christian Legal Centre headed up by the brilliant barrister Andrea Minichello Williams whom I know well is having increasing success as cases against committed Christians are seen as discriminatory. At the very least Christians do not figure in plots to harm others,including other muslims,which Islamists in ever increasing numbers figure prominently or haul their children off to Syria and/or Iraq to join ISIS!
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Their cases often seem to be attempts to uphold the Christian right to discriminate and proselytise.
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As if Islam is not the major proselytiser and discriminator of any religion in the world!!
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Are you suggesting that proselytising from one religion (Islam) justifies discrimination from another (Christianity) David? If so I worry about your ‘two wrongs make a right’ stance. If not your stance then your comment here, presumably in defence of the Christian Legal Centre, is irrelevant.
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You already did reply to that post, David. Ha, you even regarded me as your favourite commenter within the first couple of sentences! Have I pissed you off now or something? Inconsistent as always. Perhaps you should leave the internet for a few day, eh mate? I’m sure you’re a very confused man which is now even rubbing off on me as I now struggle to keep up with your numerous replies across different threads, addressing different topics. I wish you’d just hit the reply button underneath my posts so I don’t have to keep checking myself what the hell you’re going on about.
Speaking of which, your reply to my post several days ago mentioned nowt about human rights. What do you want me to say? Good on them? Is there a point to what you’re saying? Do you think I’m against human rights or something or that muslims are?
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David, to quote you, “As if Islam is not the major proselytiser and discriminator of any religion in the world!!” I’m not sure they are. At least I had no muslims come-a-knocking on my door regularly; I’ve only been back in the UK for a few months and already have had three different couple of christians come to my house with obvious intentions! In all my life thus far, only christians have the audacity do this. Perhaps I stand to be corrected though?
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Your house is not representative of numerous COUNTRIES where Islam’s proseletyzing is rampant. Yes you do stand corrected.
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Maybe in the middle east where Islam is the majority religion, yes, certainly not here in England though where Christianity takes that award.
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I’ve had Mormons, Jehovahs witnesses and Hare Krishnas try to convert me at home and Happy-clappy Christians hassle me in the street. Never anything like that from Muslims though.
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What pray does any of this prove or amount to. I have come across three large churches where muslims have set up stalls containing English language versions of the Qur’an and books by so-called muslim scholars which I consider blatant provocation.Just imagine what a huge fuss there would be if Christians did the same with bibles outside mosques!
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It ‘proves’ or at least casts some very large doubts upon your claim that Islam is the biggest prosletysing force – at the very least it’s not the case here in UK. That then casts doubt upon your many proclamations about the various behaviours that are demanded of (& performed by) ALL Muslims.
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On my travels, anytime I’ve spoken to a muslim and they’ve queried my religion, to which I reply that I am not religious, they’ve just left it at that and we talked about other things. On the contrary, there have been some christians I’ve conversed with also asking the same question, to which after I reply my usual answer they then go on to tell me that I should accept jesus/the lord/god/whatever in to my heart and let him speak to me and yadda yadda yadda. This was especially the case during my time in India. As much as I found these christian peoples to be pleasant, it did peeve me a little that they just wouldn’t shut up about their religion. In the end, I just played my uke and all was well 😀
David, I think our point is (mine certainly is anyway), is that Islam isn’t the solely the perpetrators of proselytisers in the world. Depending where you are, the countries majority religious population is likely to be the biggest contributors to proselytizing efforts. I think we can all surely agree that everybody has the right to practice their religion but not force it upon anyone else; what one has faith in is their prerogative and any efforts to convert people in an intrusive manner is pretty shitty if you ask me, just as is indoctrination of children from parents.
One can’t help but wonder if will really do have choice and free will in such a world where inodctrination and proselytisation are the norm.
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Terry, first and foremost I am extremely glad to have the opportunity to apologise for my unkind remarks about you. When you are battling to expose ebfbloggers total ignorance of Islam where she has to use the internet(often using a discredited source) to question me all the time even though I have a pretty thick skin I do resent criticism from other EBF members.
In this day and age I fully agree with you about proselytizing. All it does is create division and resentment. Normal people just want to get on with their lives not to be preached at by religious busybodies from ANY religion.
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I’m sure this is just another hollow apology isn’t it David? Thus we come to another end of another cycle of argument. Give it a couple of days and you’ll reply to another old post in what could easily be interpreted in a somewhat aggressive manner. In any case, luckily one doesn’t have to be a christian to be a forgiving person 😉
Criticism allows growth, understanding and hopefully new perspectives on life though, David. If you get resentful and angry, then surely you just simply dislike what we have to say and thus are so close minded. Not that it matters anyway; I’m sure none of us are going to change one another’s opinions. If you, what 70 odd always held such views, then I can’t see see a few strangers on the internet are going to say anything to change that. None the less, such discussions with you could at least be a little less hostile.
Take myself and grizzlyvamp for example: as you’re aware, we both have very different views on christianity and the supernatural, yet, despite opposing views, we managed to be respectful (although I was a wee bit facetious once or twice, but I’ve always been like that. Can’t take life way too seriously all the time, I say!) whilst criticising but remained friendly. Being so open minded, I think, allows for a much more stimulating discussion whereas with you, well, you come off being so exasperated all the time. Take it a bit easy, yeah?
You know, that’s what I find so unappealing about right-wingers in general (to bring them up for the first time, but I think it’s apt for my current train of thought): they (and evidently you), take everything so bloody serious all the time. Compare BF with EBF, the former’s page is so humourless and they never seem to crack a smile or laugh at themselves from time to time. In lieu of humour is just vitriol, hatred, resentment and hostilities. I can’t even for the life of me think of a decent right-wing comedian (only the likes of Roy Chubby Brown and Jim Davidson spring to mind – and they’re just washed out hacks that can only attract a handful of racist piss-heads down the back of small piers on British seasides with their oh-so-funny-schoolboy “paki” jokes).
Not sure where this train of thought was heading, but I ust think you all need to lighten the fuck up sometimes. Go and chill with some muslims and smoke shisha; learn to laugh not only at others but yourself too; and learn a bit of reading comprehension – I’ve noticed you take some of my tongue-in-cheek comments serious too (my calling for all extremists to occupy an island and battle it out for once and for all ala the great film “Battle Royale” for example. I thought it was obviously going to be interpreted as a flippant comment!)
.
Anyway, I’ve rambled on too much about nothing important for some reason.
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grizzlyvamp it is extremely obvious to me that you have never read anything in an English language version of the Qur’an. If not then I really don’t understand how you can complain about my post?
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grizzlyvamp I would passionately urge you to look at one of the finest articles on human rights I have ever had the privilege of reading: The Upside-Downside World of University Human Rights by Denis MacEoin.
I do hope that ebfblogger would look as well! http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5939/university-human-rights
I would hope that if you read it you would not declare that Mr MacEoin’s argument “falls rather flat”
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ebfblogger,your repost to mine of 1.09pm did not have a reply button. My mention of proseletyzing was merely a comment not a justification.Very often lately you seem intent on making a mountain out of a molehill if I most respectfully may say?
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I’m just trying to establish the credibility of your 15 years of study claim
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My replies on the other blog are more than enough to need to reply to THIS one,surely?!
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So we can agree then that your authoritative comments tend to be mere speculation based upon the biased publications ofIslamophobic think tanks then?
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No we cannot.I very much doubt that after these exchanges we might be able to agree on almost anything!
You are most unhealthily obsessed with anything even beginning with the word Islam. You have very obviously avoided the fact that five distinguished Senior Fellows at Gatestone are muslims.
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The content of Gatestone’s ‘scholarly’ and ‘well researched’ articles tells me all I need to know about this ideologically driven think tank. Every group has its dissidents. Islam has many factions as have other religions. Five Muslims supporting Gatestone does not compensate for its obvious bias.
It’s a shame that your sole source of information is a think tank that’s only been going for a few years (less than 15, I think).
Where did you say you were advisor to a Muslim government, again? I’m sure you said that in one of your early comments but I’ve been unable to find any reference to you advising any Muslim state’s leaders on the internet.
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Just do me the courtesy of reading and PUBLISHING my very complete response posted this morning!
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I have done so. I did it without you needing to ask.
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I’ve never believed Davids claim to have studied Islam for 15 years right from the start (I perhaps even mentioned this in my first ever reply to him). A non-muslim can not possibly (or at least very unlikely) know more about islam than muslims. It’ll be like me saying I’m more of an expert on, I dunno, plumbing than plumbers because I’ve spent some time researching plumbing from a website written by people who are also not plumbers.
That I think almost all his links have directed us to that biased think tank he adores so much. I haven’t checked, but maybe his words are just echoed from the journalists there, albeit, changed a few words here and there to make his own. I’ll check if and when I can be arsed.
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That would be interesting.
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Like ebfblogger,just read,mark and learn my response posted this morning.
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Terry, as there is no reply button on your past two posts I am replying on this one.
Frankly for a semi-literate 32? year old you do adore lecturing.It would not be so unacceptable if it were not so repetitive and boring. I actually really enjoy a lot on EBF it is the absence of thought and knowledge of the subject of the blog in question which pisses me off. I am actually, a pretty laid back old bloke but occasionally I sigh when I have to reply to your posts when they do tend to contain huge lumps of moralising very amateur philosophising and totally unnecessary swear words.Without all that I would enjoy your posts!
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“I’m sure this is just another hollow apology isn’t it David? Thus we come to another end of another cycle of argument. Give it a couple of days and you’ll reply to another old post in what could easily be interpreted in a somewhat aggressive manner” – I posted that a mere few hours ago (scroll down to the bottom of this page for the whole scoop). I’m now going to play a new drinking game: take a shot every time David is inconsistent. I’ll start…
First you say this, “…Your combined ages are hardly more than my eldest son and I just do not comprehend how you come across as mature philosophers?!…” source -https://exposingbf.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/off-topic-digressions/ – now this, “…I sigh when I have to reply to your posts when they do tend to contain huge lumps of moralising very amateur philosophising…” That’s one shot!
Secondly, “…I have read and reread your posts with considerable trepidation and awe…” same post same source. Now this, “It would not be so unacceptable if it were not so repetitive and boring”. Second shot guys!
Take a third shot just because his apologies fall flat.
27 getting on drunk if you must know. I already told you my stance of those naughty swear words and how I deem them necessary and how I am not going to censor myself because you you throw a boo-hoo over them. Care to spank me, David?
Fuck it, fourth shot because I don’t think you read properly. Going take a fifth shot because I know you’ll get uppity. Chin chin chaps and chapettes!
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Terry, most unfortunately I am not in charge of your regular mood swings and wild imaginings which require the services of a psychiatrist, In the very same post you can be amusing,intelligent, wacky,circumlocutive, familiar, unfamiliar, strange, logical and the exact opposite. I just do not know how to respond to you post by post, Yes, you can baffle me with your ideas about philosophy but criticism from you on my knowledge of Islam I do not find acceptable as you make it abundantly clear that you know so very little about it.
Anyway I very much hope that we can converse far more equably in future as long as I do not become really ill.
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In other words, one must seek a psychiatrist after conversing with you? Notice I don’t have “mood swings” with anybody else, David.
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After conversing with YOU I meant!
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Just going to point out that {..} is not ASCII this is: 123 046 046 125 but since we’re off topic here perhaps we should 108 101 097 118 101 032 105 116 032 116 104 101 114 101 032 111 114 032 109 111 118 101 032 105 116 032 116 111 032 116 104 101 032 111 102 102 032 116 111 112 105 099 032 112 111 115 116 😉 lol
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I was in charge of a project jointly funded by OHI(Oman’s largest commercial organisation) and its government to expand and manage the variety and size of its agronomy and introduce new plants to that country. You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel to prove your points and the substance of your blogs which are so obviously garnered by articles and internet searches dismissed by any who know anything at all about the subject and can be picked apart by anyone with even a very small knowledge.
Unless you ban me I shall examine all and any of your future blogs to see if there are any of the usual anomalies and downright untruths.
Finally, what on earth has the fact that Gatestone has been going for 15 years(a goodish time in most people’s minds) got to do with how eminent it certainly is?)Just as a matter of interest is the internet your sole source of information for your blogs because if so you are choosing some pretty dodgy sites.
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So you didn’t advise Sultan Qaboos Bin Said Al Said then? You advised a commercial company. And not about Islam or related topics, but about agricultural matters? Is that right?
You may think I’m scraping the bottokm of the barrel but given your superficial and biased statements (which are clearly no more than speculations) I thin k it’s reasonable to try to find out if you are even close to the ’15 year scholar’ you claim to be. So far I strongly suspect not.
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Of course I did not advise the Sultan but I worked directly under the Omani Minister of Agriculture and a Board member of Omani Holdings International. HM Sultan Qaboos very obviously does not get involved with commercial projects for many good reasons just as our Queen does not. Your comments on my knowledge have merely become repetitive,childish and very boring.
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Yet you claimed to have advised the Sultan. I checked.
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Advising the Omani Minister of Agriculture is much the same. He included my reports and findings in meetings of Oman’s Council which is the equivalent to our House of Lords as Oman does not include on its Council any “ordinary” Omani citizen only its aristocracy.
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Oh,I quite forgot to ask what your specialisation is so that I might have a good go at it.
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My specialisation is irrelevant to this topic which is why I make no claims to be a scholar of Islam. A bit like the way that agriculture is irrelevant to the topic.
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Anders Breivik was a man who BELIEVED he was committing that heinous act on behalf of Christianity not that he actually was a Christian.So no and no. Please just admit that you have been seen off on this blog and we can move to another.
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I have not been ‘seen off’ at all. You may choose to deny that Breivik is a violent Christian and yet you do not allow Muslims to distance themselves from violent Muslims in the same way. In both cases the violence is prompted by rigid adherance to extremely old writing that most modern followers of the respective religions do not adhere to. As a student of Islam for 15 years you seem strangely unable to acknowledge that the variation of views that you use to defend Christianity exists in Islam.
It’s almost as though you haven’t studied Islam for 15 years at all.
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WRONG AGAIN!! All muslims are commanded to accept every word in the Qur’an as “gospel” if you will permit me to use that word. Muhammad is considered to be THE perfect man despite his very obvious gross imperfections as displayed clearly in the Hadith and Sunnah(sayings and deeds of the “Prophet”) All this is demanded by the four Islamic schools of jurisprudence led by the Al Azhar University at Cairo. Criticism of Islam generally comes from muslim scholars who have apostasised or the very many others who-as I have very often mentioned-either have not read the Qur’an or who have deliberately ignored a great deal of it and are non orthodox or secular Muslims i.e the great majority who are almost universally proud to be British citizens and who in the event of an Islamist takeover would be for the high jump as they would be regarded as much as Infidels as non-muslims. BF would obviously be first for the chop.
Your ghastly ignorance will one day come back to haunt you. Even for you your final sentence is plainly daft.
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Aren’t all Christians supposed to accept every word of the bible too, David? But just like Muslims, the majority don’t go around taking foreign slaves and raping enemy virgins.
Your ‘expertise’ seems to be limited to an old book rather than to the experience of modern Islam. But that’s what happens when you trust a think tank to get your unformation from. You get conned.
Some ‘expert’.
Are you sure you’re not a biffer?
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AS a matter of FACT,your ignorance of Islam and what is actually going on in the Islamic world would if easily obtained be exactly what BF needs to be credible so, unknowingly you are way outbiffering me.
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Why not stop it now, David? We’ve already established that you’re not an expert. We’ve established that your 15 years of study amounts to trawling a few Islamophobic websites. We’ve established that you have at best been economical with the truth about your ‘expertise’ and we’ve exposed your biffer tendencies for all to see. Your abusiveness when chalkenged (a common biffer tactic) has already been amply demonstrated.
Do you really want to continue and demonstrate how illogical you can be as well?
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Your comments are merely those of a deeply flawed extremely ignorant female who has very clearly demonstrated a blinding ignorance of the subject of most of her blogs and can only defend herself by smearing the person outing her as an ignoramus and incompetent in her role. With these remarks I am being extremely accurate and logical.
If you just cannot overcome me in debate or argument you finally just HAVE to call me a Biffer so why don’t you just tell me to leave EBF and save yourself even more thoroughly justified criticism and even scorn?
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Yep. Defo a biffer. The sexism is never far from the surface once you call the Nazis on their lies!
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THe Quran of 1400 years ago certainly is an old book but unlike Christianity which largely reformed after the C17 Thirty Years War, the Quran is exactly the same today and STILL every word is considered sacrosanct and to be obeyed and followed to the letter.If you believe this to be incorrect you are contradicting very nearly every accredited muslim scholar in the world and the Al Azhar University the leading school of jurisprudence. Knowing you well by now you are a mistress at tilting at windmills and falling flat on your face!
Feeding BF with the ammunition of total ignorance of the subject of so many of your blogs makes YOU much more of a Biffer than me. Of course you do not have the courage or probity of publishing so many of my replies to your utterly ignorant and disingenuous comments about me.
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I have published most of your replies including those in which you insult me. I have not published your attacks on others.
I suggest that your view of the bible and the idea that it can in large part be ignored is no different from the situation in which many UK Muslims find themselves. Just as Christians ignore large swathes of the Bible in order to behave reasonably in the modern world, so do many Muslims.
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ebfblogger, yet again I respectfully request that you read through my many posts which mirror exactly my agreement of the situation you describe here.
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Just remember that it was YOU who queried my involvement with the Omani government and I merely replied. You very surely demonstrated to me and to anyone allowed to see my comments that you know diddly squat about a subject you blog about! A very little learning sure is a very dangerous thing,only made worse by no knowledge at all. If BF ever got hold of some of the things you have said God alone knows what they might do with them” It is very fortunate that they are SO stupid that they do not appear to know much about the Qur’an themselves, They have quite enough ammunition by pointing to the Islamist fanatics defiling our police,our soldiers and,of course the entire Jewish race quite apart from treasonably attacking our Queen and promising that when Shari’a rule came to the UK she would be turned out of Buck House and that it would be converted into a mega mosque and she could live somewhere else as a dhimmie!
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The ‘fanatics’ (as you correctly describe them) who are disowned by Muslims just as Breivik is disowned by Christians.
Really – tour ‘expertise’ is sounding more and more like the desperate accusations of the biffers. Are you sure you’re not a biffer?
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There is an article by Muslim apostate Raymond Ibrahim on Gatestone today which I reckon you should read. “Islamic, Islamic”.You might learn something about Islamist killing of Christians in the middle east which even you could not dismiss.
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Would you give the same credibility to Christian apostates slagging off your own faith because of the actions of its more radical adherents, David? For example would you say that a former Christian criticising Christianity because of the behaviour of Aanders Breivik had a fair point? If not – then why not?
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There are fanatics in all religions, David. It’s hardly a mainstream Muslim approach…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism
Of course, as an ‘expert’ you wouldn’t know that most Muslims disapprove of terrorism and even in Muslim ruled states the vast majority can’t be tempted to move beyond ‘rarely’ justifiable.
Really, David – as an expert, didn’t you know any of this stuff? You always seem so certain of your ‘facts’.
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Do you not think that we have exhausted our stock of invective and repudiation?
Neither of us is at all likely to convince the other and other EBF members are very likely to be thoroughly put off rather than learning anything or just take sides-which,of course,you would win! I have never queried your commitment to “out” BF just your method of doing so and I have never queried your basic intelligence which is very obviously considerable.
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Of course I know what you have unearthed. It makes absolutely no difference because the recognised muslim schools of jurisprudence as I have stated command muslims worldwide. It is a situation akin to Nazism in Germany where very many Germans and very many outside Germany warned against the Nazis but SO committed and zealous were Hitler’s adherents that Hitler came to absolute power.Obviously you must remember the Grand Mufti’s deep regard for Hitler. It does not need a large group of Islamist zealots to commit heinous acts or even a large number of individuals. Talk is cheap and easy but DEALING with fanatics is a far cry from talking against them.
The problem is that in so many democracies which have sizeable Muslim minorities there are these extremist mosques which for years have been allowed to get away with spawning disaffected,mainly young,muslim men and girls just like those going to Syria and Iraq now. It is very late in the day to prevent many more going or to educate them. They are proof against all and any warnings such as contained in your reference. This IS a fact.
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Oh dear, David. Your paranoia is so obvious now. It doesn’t take much probing to find the biffer beneath, does it? You even capitalise like they do.
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All that you blab on about is just about on the level of a barely educated ten year old.Why dont you just put a sock in it,go to bed and have a deep sleep blissfully dreaming of your supposedly clever pronouncements. I made a big mistake considering that you were even a little bit intelligent.
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My daughter is 8 years old and I don’t doubt that even she would see through you, David.
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Well an amoeba would be able to expose you as a fraud!
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I have never claimed to be an expert, David.
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Ebfblogger, that is clearly evident by the content of a number of your blogs. Isn’t ignorance of those subjects unfair to EBF readers and commenters who hang onto your every word and believe implicitly everything you say.. Anyway, I believe that you have forced me to say many things about you that I regret because anyone who puts so much into her role and gives so much of herself to her cause should not have unkind comments made about her which I truly regret. From now on if there is to be one for me on EBF I will desist from typing any unpleasant word about you however much you criticise me or goad me.
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I’m not goading, David. I’m just stating the obvious. You’re no more an expert in Islam than the rest of us. But like most Biffers you pretend to be.
Our focus is countering the lies of Britain First. When you repeat those lies while pretending to be an expert you leave yourself wide open.
Doesn’t the God you claim to follow instruct that “Thou shalt not bear false witness.”?
You stop telling lies and I’ll stop calling you on them.
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AS none of you on here,especially YOU, exhibit the tiniest knowledge of Islam your comment is just plain stupid and finally makes me totally disrespectful of anything you say as disingenuous comments are just your stock in trade. I never expected you to prove so powerfully what an idiot you come across as continually making comments which are patently merely lies! You should stick to your “focus” a great deal more rather than engaging with someone like me who knows about 90% more about the subject of most of your blogs than you do and does not try so hard to look intelligent when the opposite is blindingly obvious. You are only an “expert” in hoodwinking EBF into believing the rubbish you spout and the blogs you crucify by your inanity.
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You really don’t like being exposed do you, David? Did you really think you could regurgitate Gatestone and we’d just believe you were a proper expert?
Sorry to disappoint you.
I’m even sorrier that you’ve chosen not to come clean.
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Even the article on Muslims condemning terrorist attacks is generally five years old and extremism has considerably increased in that time,Hoary old chestnuts do not do much to advance your argument!
It was,of course, pretty well balanced by considerable admission of jihad becoming very evident.
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Glad ypu liked the article. It made the point that Jihad is more than just Holy war. A suggestion that you (the self proclaimed ‘expert’) denied and indeed ridiculed.
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I have already proved without a shadow of doubt with appropriate verses from the Qur’an and Hadith that the four schools of Islamic jurisprudence especially the Al Azhar University and virtually every true muslim scholar explain that Jihad means Holy War. You are just clinging on by your finger tips to avoid being made to look ignorant yet again.Are you not yet weary of being outed so often? Please believe me it does not please me proving you wrong it happens so often it has just become boring and tiresome.
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You’d love to prove me wrong, David. The only reason you’re here claiming to be an authority on Islam is because you want to undermine the blog. You have tried everything you can to discredit the blog (because we threaten Britain First) but you’re too transparent to be effective.
You have proven nothing. You have merely regurgitated propoganda from Islamophobic sources. EBF readers are far too aware to fall for that.
You’ve had a good run but now you really should stop regurgitating Biffer & Gatestone lies and come clean. We’re a forgiving bunch here but you need to either admit you’re a biffer (it’s pretty obvious) or at the very least start acknowledging that there’s more to the nature of modern Muslim relations than wahhabism and a complementary, kneejerk extremist reaction from non-Muslims.
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ebfnlogger it may well be a complete surprise to you and others on EBF that I am extremely willing and happy to state that there is much more to the nature of modern Muslim relations than Wahhabism and Deobandi mosques. Most unfortunately it is the horrid statements and actions of Islamists and would be terrorists that is seized on by the media and given thoroughly disgraceful TV and air time as I noted in a recent post when a young white Muslim woman blamed Israel for the rise of ISIS. Such disingenuous comments reflect badly on muslims who are blameless.That is exactly the type of behaviour and thinking which produces the kneejerk reaction you speak of.
I am totally unmoved about your mention of me as appearing like a Biffer. I just write as I see it from a greater knowledge of Islam than I am very confident any of you have. I am not an authority on anything much else so please do allow me this one. You can hardly tell me that I am a Biffer unless I do what you want me to even though I have done so willingly as I agree with you on this one 100%! It is very late in the day to even begin to repair the damage that ghastly creatures like Anjem Choudary and groups like the EDL,the BNP and BF have done to the vast majority of peaceful and educated muslims but even the Government’s somewhat divisive anti-terrorist measures are a start and they may well blow apart the far-right groups I have mentioned.
If my words do not satisfy you then I am sad and sorry but Islam has undoubtedly had a bad habit of shooting itself in the foot and quite likely not criticising its dislikeable side sufficiently. I would once again point out the words of President of Egypt, Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi who on New Years Day 2015 stated that Islam should not be responsible for death and destruction in the non-muslim world and needed revision and a new purpose.
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Thanks for the correction mate! I had assumed it was called ASCII art. Looks like it’s already gone.
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I think there is something called ASCII art – I have seen things like it before and did see references to it but its different to ASCII code which is essentially the unique code each key/key combination on your keyboard has so that your computer can translate, more or less.
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GV I can now readily understand why you and Terry are so fond of this particular blog.
There are a goodly number of interesting and important blogs now on EBF for you two to add your comments.
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Yes it has gone. Sorry but that was a bit too much Terry.
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ebfblogger, as I see that you are active today and that I have produced a number of what I contend are pertinent posts to the latest blogs would you please be so kind to allow them to be seen?
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Do you mean the ones where you add nothing to the arguments but simply insult the faith, literacy and intelligence of other posters, David? Or the ones where you point out how irrelevant the opinions of people younger than you are?
Sorry – not publishing those.
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ebfblogger,even for someone like you who is paranoid in your hatred for me that is a real pippin!
Have you not appreciated that I have posted a number of pertinent and non-personal comments very recently?
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All of which have been posted.
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ebfblogger,very many thanks as I have much more to add on the burqa blog.
I still find your obvious hatred of me very sad.
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I don’t hate you, David. I find your inconsistency irritating and your double-standard very hypocritical at times but I don’t hate you.
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ebfblogger, if you truly don’t hate me then might I ask you to let up on the never-ending snide comments on my posts? I just am forced to say that I also find you extremely hypocritical at times.
On a more pleasant note I do hope that your daughter has fully recovered?
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ebfblogger,STILL no comments of mine on the Burqa blog have been posted.Would you be so kind as to explain?
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If you post something non abusive I’ll publish it.
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Ebfblogger, are you not on EBF duty now? I am extremely confused and upset concerning my Burqa posts.When I have posted comments on your blogs such as Obsession with National Security,The Muslim Paedo Myth,Rampant Sexism and Muslim No-Go Zones which you found distasteful and even insulting but I could not let go as I believed they required me to disagree, my comments on the Burqa blog are in no possible way insulting or hurtful to anyone.
As I have stated before I take no pleasure in rebuffing you but a knowledge of the Qur’an is a big help in commenting on here and very helpful on the Burqa one.
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This is getting very boring now, David. Post non abusive comments and I’ll publish them. It’s very simple.
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ebfblogger,NONE of my comments on the Burqa Ban blog have been posted!
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Try posting them without all the abuse. I have only withheld comments that abuse others.
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Please do explain to me where I have abused anyone on the Burqa blog???
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I’m unable to quote from deleted comments David. I have explained the reasoning several times though. Perhaps you have forgotten what you have posted previously. I certainly don’t make a point of memorising your abuses – often it’s bad enough just having to read them in the first place.
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ebfblogger,I am replying on this post as there is no reply button on your post of 12.29 pm.
May I most respectfully ask you-for the umpteenth time-why my blameless comments on the Burqa blog are not yet posted??
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I will not answer this question again, David.
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The Burqa blog?!
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ebfblogger, I promise that I won’t ask again but your refusal to give me a valid reason why my Burqa comments have not been posted I find extremely puzzling and somewhat sinister!! Has there been a decision to block all my comments in future??
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No there hasn’t, David. So far just the exceptionally abusive comments are blocked. After today’s repetitive demands that I continue to answer the same question over and over I must stress SO FAR though.
If you want to comment without abuse on the burka thread go ahead. Tour comments will be moderated for abuse and relevance in the usual way.
I’ve been lax with you over the weekend because my own comments were pretty direct and so I wanted to give you a chance to respond. Tou’ll notice that the majority of your insults toward me got through for that reason (but not so much toward orhers) Now I think it’s time to reintroduce a more reasonable tone.
Post your comment. If it isn’t abusive it’ll get through.
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ebfblogger,in none of your replies to me have you answered my perfectly reasonable question!
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I have answered several times. Stop this charade now or you’ll be gone from the blog entirely.
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I have not checked the blog yet ebfblogger but I will not ask you again.
I believe that you will find any of my comments on the blog of real interest.
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Post it without abuse and I’ll publish it
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NONE on the Burqa blog!
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??????????-ALL?
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That’s fair enough!
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