The ‘Muslim paedo’ myth

Britain First is great at jumping on bandwagons. Arguably that’s all they ever do (apart from beg for money). One of the most common bandwagons they board as readily as the rest of us hop on to public transport (goose-stepping up the ideological bus like the bunch of demented Biffers that they really are) is the ‘Muslim paedo’ myth.

You know the one – this is the myth that would have you believe that there are no paedophiles outside of Islam and no Muslims who aren’t paedophiles. This is the myth that all Muslims are either paedophiles or paedophile enablers. This is the myth that anyone who opposes Britain First is a paedophile lover. This is the myth that says that there would be no paedophile problem in the UK without Muslims. This is the myth that would have you believe that UK paedophiles didn’t exist until 1997 when immigration ‘began’ at the behest of Tony Blair. This is the myth that tells you this stuff just didn’t happen – it couldn’t have – it didn’t involve Muslims and it was going on long before 1997.

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John Broomfield
John Broomfield (RCO Biffer)

If Britain First was really interested in dealing with paedophilia then they’d address the real problem head on. They’d do something constructive to help like support victims charities or child protection organisations. But they’re not really interested in child protection. That’s why they ignore white paedophiles and even promote them within their own organisation. Let’s not forget that the RCO Biffer, John Broomfield is himself a convicted paedophile.

It’s interesting that we haven’t seen Broomfield in any of the Britain First pics or videos recently. He hasn’t been at any of the rallies or meetings as far as we can tell. Maybe he was just too embarrassing for this group of ‘anti-paedo’ campaigners. Maybe they just quietly got rid of him. They certainly haven’t issued any statements about him. It almost smells like a cover up. Hang on though – isn’t that the sort of sneaky move they criticise others for?

We don’t know if Broomfield has gone or not. We do know that until EBF started exposing the sex offender in their ranks Britain First’s Biffers had no problem taking orders from an RCO who was also a convicted paedophile – so long as that paedophile was white. It’s almost as if they’re really just a bunch of hypocritical racists. Not that anyone would ever believe that!

The reality is that paedophilia is a problem throughout society. It’s been present for decades, perhaps centuries and it exists amongst all ethnic and religious groups.

The Biffers would have you think that child abuse is about Muslims. We would have you do a bit of research yourself. It really doesn’t take much time on google to learn just how stupid this myth really is.
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111 thoughts on “The ‘Muslim paedo’ myth

    • Ok. I read it. I was struck by the author’s lack of balance in ignoring the reality that paedophilia is an issue throughout all demographics.
      I was struck by the way the author implied that the demonstrations in the North of England were by locals.
      I was struck by the way the author plays down the Islamophobia problem.
      I was struck by the way the author can ‘imagine’ that someone who isn’t motivated by neoNazism ‘might’ also want to protest.
      I was struck by the way the author ignored the fact that many of these paedophiles were reported by fellow Muslims.
      I am continually struck by the obvious lies of omission that feature in all the Gatestone articles you recommend, David.
      I an struck by the huge waste of time that attending to these obviously biased articles represents.
      I am struck by the clear anti-Islamic agenda of the neocon Gatestone Institute.

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      • Your last few sentences are sentiments I’ve shared with David myself some weeks ago. Despite informing him that the founder is what’s-her-name who is criticised for being islamophobic and one of its publishers is Robert Spencer who is currently banned from entering the UK for, of course, hate speech, perplexingly he still urges people to read that biased website.

        After reading your reply, I’m sure he’ll continue to do.

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        • Terry,if/when my comments are moderated and there to see I urge you to read and mark closely the clear EVIDENCE contained there.

          Robert Spencer is an acknowledged authority on Islam and the Qur’an.Just because you very obviously do not like him that does not make you right. The ignorant British Government has allowed a number of known terrorists or sympathisers of terrorists into this country,notably al-Qaradawi. The UAF also includes among its leaders, Azad Ali who has stated that as a muslim he is bound to want to kill British soldiers. Weyman Bennet is a known Islamist. I do not see anywhere in print that Spencer either wants to or intends to kill any muslim or even Islamist. Your blinding bias shines brightly!

          Interestingly,the Government allowed the right-wing Geert Wilders into Britain to show his film FITNA so it demonstrates that there is no clear policy on these matters. Do,please,understand in future that just because you do not like certain people or their views it does not make you right. Spencer & co do NOT attack muslims in general just the Islamist ones,and,of course,terrorists!

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          • Yeah, he’s acknowledged authority to you. To me, he’s just another scaremongering journalist who cherry picks; all religious texts contain act of atrocities and are primitive to me (fortunately, most people do cherry pick the nicer bits nowadays to fit in with the current zeitgeist and morals). It doesn’t mean that believers of their chosen faith should be discriminated against, though, or tarred with the same brush as the minority of extremist groups that happen to share the same faith with them (although they all accuse one another not to be a “true [insert religious faith]” anyway).

            Neither of us are right or wrong because, how we differently view Robert Spencer and others of his irk are purely subjective. However, it is correct to say he is biased and has long been vehement towards islam which will skew his opinions.

            *yawns* yes yes, we’ve already agreed, I’m sure, that all extremists are abhorrent – muslim or not.

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        • Terry, I have learned a great deal about Islam from Robert Spencer.Yes,he does greatly dislike Islam as I do but he always defends muslims as I do knowing that they are born into that ideology and to leave it the generally accepted penalty is death. However,he and Geller really let themselves and their supporters down by hosting the Muhammad Cartoon Exhibition in Texas which was bound to hurt the feelings of “moderate” muslims and enrage more orthodox ones and incite violence,which of course it did by the shootings by the police of a muslim objector.

          According to you it appears any criticism of Islam must be biased and Islamophobic but any criticism of Christianity is just expected and fair game. There is far more hate speech from extremist muslims already in the UK going back to the days of such horrors as Abu Qatada and ,Abu Hamza, now Azad Ali and Weyman Bennett of the UAF, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi the hater of Jews and pal of Ken Livingstone, and of course the execrable Anjem Choudary and Abu Izzadeen. Of course Spencer,unlike Qatada,Hamza, and the last two named does not live grandly on very considerable state benefits paid for by the likes of you and me!

          Finally,I certainly will continue to read Jihad Watch to find out how close to the UK terrorist acts are occurring.Do you not consider that to be prudent??

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          • “I have learned a great deal about Islam from Robert Spencer.”

            You see, that’s the problem. Confirmation bias. Try reading from a wider range of sources.

            Bigots reading bigots to reassure themselves that they aren’t bigots.

            Even here, you are not reading what EBFBlogger is writing, just hovering around so that you can post links to prejudiced websites. For evidence of this, note that the page you linked to is not actually about the subject in the blog. The blog refers to BF’s excessive focus on Muslim abusers and ignores others whilst the only way the page is relevant is because it too, ignores cover ups in the wider community whilst feigning concern over cover ups of Muslim crime.

            As for “I certainly will continue to read Jihad Watch to find out how close to the UK terrorist acts are occurring.Do you not consider that to be prudent?” That’s about as prudent as reading vaxtruth.org to find out how to care for your childrens’ health. There’s nothing prudent in asking the paranoid to keep lookout for you. Or is the story of Peter and the Wolf new to you?

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      • ebfblogger,for “clear anti-Islamic agenda” please alter to “clear anti-ISLAMIST agenda. Why are you always doing your level best to dislike and dismiss ANYTHING remotely critical of Islam and Islamists??

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          • ebfblogger,it is very sad that you are pathologically unable or unwilling to separate my dislike of Islam and Islamists, and muslims per se. I leave it to that marvelous comedian Rowan Atkinson to enlighten you. ” As hatred is defined as intense dislike, what is wrong with intense dislike of a RELIGION if the atrocities or teachings of that religion are so outrageous, irrational or abusive of human rights that they deserve to be intensely disliked”? Please do point out any of my comments specifically attacking muslims rather than Islam. Gatestone is right-wing not anti-muslim. To elucidate you, its Chairman John R.Boston is a former US Ambassador to the UN and five Senior Fellows,Salim Mansur,Raheel Raza, Ahmed Chaval, Zuhdi Jasser and Khaled Abu Toameh are Muslims.

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            • Let me guess this , you’re basing your hate upon meeting certain individuals? Based on this cherry picking one dimension outlook, how do you feel about coalition forces consisting of atheist/ pagans and Christians dropping bombs on Iraq murdering thousands of innocent children? Using uranium to deform thousands of newborns? Have you checked the cancer rate? Last time I checked it was Saudis, Pakistani, Algerian and Egyptian in the 9/11 planes, last time I checked, the 7/11 bombers were pakastini origin! So go on explain it, justify the killing of thousands of children.

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          • ebfblogger if you(erroneously) believe that I am anti Muslim just have a look on the internet and see what former muslims have to say about Islam .You would approve that so many have become atheists and agnostics.

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      • ebfblogger,what on earth is wrong with anyone or any body having an anti-Islamic agenda?? Islam certainly deserves much criticism.Even the influential and powerful Abdel Fattah al-Sisi,President of Egypt and many other Islamic scholars have done so very recently.

        Why on earth would you expect or hope for lies of omission?? or whatever that means to be included. I certainly do not consider that the time and attention I spend on Gatestone is at all wasted. It has many brilliant writers and Senior Fellows including five distinguished Muslims. Is it absolutely vital to bring in “other muslims” when talking about reported paedophiles. Islamophobia is an oxymoron anyway. I have already,many times, been concerned by your own lack of balance-do you remember my “wonky scales” remark?

        Your HUGE FAR LEFT WING bias explodes from the page I regret. Gatestone for me is a very welcome and informative read when the far left bias on here just becomes extremely tedious.

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        • David – you recommended this as unbiased. So I responded in that light.

          Please, if you continue to insist upon reducing every discussion to an overly simplistic issue of ‘left’ & ‘right’ please stop pretending that eveyone else is bringing political dichotomies into things. As far as I can see that agenda is entirely your own.

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        • David I have to say I find that on matters other than Britain First specifically ebfblogger is remarkably balanced and attempts to give insight into both sides of a particular area of debate, that is not to say she is perfect or that I even agree with every point she makes. The purpose of the blog is to expose Britain First for the thuggish, money scamming organisation it is. You are the one who continually makes “far right” biased comments that aren’t really necessary since as we keep telling you we’re not entirely disagreeing with you, we just choose to view the situation differently based on our own experiences and knowledge of the world at large. You are the one pushing a different agenda, we are chosen to concern ourselves with Britain First – other groups choose to focus on the EDL, ISIS, UAF and other such groups instead and I’m sure you’d be more than welcome to contribute to those groups as long as you are polite and don’t over push your own agenda. My point is you have to chose your battles and EBF and those who follow it such as myself chose to pick on Britain First, it is not that we are not against the EDL, ISIS etc it is just we prefer to focus the time on Britain First due to their particularly effective, even if they are deplorable and just plain vicious tactics.

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          • grizzlyvamp, I must commend you on a most reasonable and balanced reply. Of course I realise that EBF exists to expose BF and decry its very existence.However, from a personal point of view I consider that so many blogs trying to outdo each other in disgust and disapproval runs the risk of running out of steam, To cover much more BF antics would probably require a “mole” planted in its midst!

            Again,personally, I see no harm to EBF if occasionally, subjects ALLIED to BF and complementary are mentioned even briefly. You and I are without doubt the most active on here but I do wonder if either we put other posters off or that some others might have the reservation that I do? I am sure that the number of posts by others seems to have diminished in the past few weeks despite ebfblogger still producing a goodly number of interesting blogs. I welcome your comment.

            By the way I detest all the other groups you mentioned so I might as well continue attacking BF as those who post on EBF appear to be much better educated and informed than most,particularly YOU in your more lucid moments!

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            • Thank you, I do try to be as balanced as I can a lot of the time however I do feel a lot that your comments require specific refuting which often results in an unbalanced approach. Commenters come and go and no doubt our stronger voices may well have put some people off posting however it could just as well be symptomatic of the fact that they just don’t feel they have anything to add to the debate or topic at hand. Not to mention your habit of getting touchy at times whenever anyone has an opposing view would be an off put – not that I am trying to put blame specifically on anyone just point out that there are numerous reasons, some of which could have nothing to do with any of the reasons I have mentioned, that there is only a small handful of us who seem to regularly post comments. However we’re off topic here so shall leave it there.

              As for your 15+ years of experience looking at Islamic texts may well be an academic achievement. I can say I have 5+ years experience of Physics (which considering my age, especially when compared to yours – relevant in that it has occupied an entire fifth of my entire life give or take, I think isn’t too shabby) and it is about as meaningful. All that experience you have, whilst relevant, is not the be all and end all of Islam – the actions of Muslims speaks volumes on behalf of the religion. Point is your experience in Islam is about as useful in everyday life as my experience in Physics is. In fact my experience helps me to better understand how every day objects like computers, mobile phones and broadband but that is hardly the point as I don’t need that knowledge or often use it in day to day life. However I digress again.

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              • grizzlyvamp, I must comment that as far as EBF is concerned my deep knowledge of Islam must be a great deal more relevant to EBF than your knowledge of physics! Quite apart from a study of the Quran,Hadith and Sunnah, I spent a number of years working in the middle east as an adviser to HM Sultan Qaboos bin Said al Said, the Ruler of the Sultanate of Oman, also in Saudi Arabia as General Manager of BTR Plastics,manufacturers of GRP (graphite reinforced plastic water tanks) from where I moved to the UAE and thence to Qatar. During my travels I discussed( extremely carefully) the tenets of Islam with some “moderate” muslims and received lectures from others who still considered me an Infidel.

                On my final return from abroad I joined as an Associate the Forum of Ex Muslims and learned a very considerable amount about the inner workings of Islam and,especially,ORTHODOX Islam. SO,I would contend that I probably know as much if not more about Islam than almost any “moderate” muslim. I would certainly query your statement that “the actions of muslims speaks volumes on behalf of the religion because those whose actions speak volumes are exactly those like Anjem Choudary, extremist imams and members of UAF like Azhaf Ali who has said that as a muslim he is bound to want to kill British soldiers. QED I believe.

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              • grizzlyvamp if you are keen to learn more about the contrasting actions of muslims I strongly urge you to google the Gatestone Institute and read the article Death BY Lashing: Saudi Arabia by the great Muslim scholar Salim Mansur concerning the Muslim liberal Raif Badawi under a virtual death penalty.It will make you very sad and angry I believe.

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          • grizzlyvamp I should have added that as I have studied the Qur’an,Hadith and Sunnah for 15+ years I believe that I have the right to challenge ANY posts to do with Islam just as I have today on the holy jihad blog which to her credit she has not moderated.

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          • Terry,you do come across if I may say so like a dog after a bone! If the other major religions, Christianity,Judaism,Hinduism,Sikhism and Buddhism regularly and blatantly abused and killed people because they were infidels then I would certainly be up in arms and highly critical.

            If you could possibly view Jihad Watch dispassionately you would understand very clearly why the “moderate” muslim and non-muslim world is in constant fear of orthodox Islam. Could you possibly point me to another major religion(although Islam is also an ideology) where throughout its history one section of the UMMAH(worldwide nation of Islam) has so viciously fought and killed millions of another-Sunni versus Shia. Together with the killing of Christians and Jews primarily, according to scholars on Islam,Professors ,Bernard Lewis,Bill Warner and Sam Harris a total over 1400 years of 270 million!

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            • Your request seems a tad specific, David. If you asked for evidence of religions where some members killed other people in the name of the religion that may be more reasonable and less exclusive. The very specific terms of your question automatically exclude all religions except Islam. I’d imagine it might be more reasonable and less ‘loaded’ to simply look for religiously justified violence.

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              • ebfblogger,my post in reality can only be specific as all the evidence available from ANY source can only conclude that Islam is by a huge stretch the greatest abuser and killer of human beings of all other religions and its own in the history of mankind.Religious justification just does not come into the equation. Anyway,I contend that Islam is an ideology more than a religion and does not separate government from religion as do the others I have mentioned.

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            • Oh do pull the other one, David! I’m not going to provide you with information that you can easily research yourself with a quick google search. I’ll let you in on something though: every religion has had its fair share of enacting violence on “non-believers” or “heathens”. Many are even documented in the bible, no?

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  1. ebfblogger and Terry, I take on board what you both say but having followed Douglas Murray for some years I know very well that his knowledge of the subjects he posts on is extremely well researched and entirely factual.

    Your strong left-wing bias shows through blindingly and IMO spoils your judgement. I admit to being right of centre but in Murray’s case it is not a matter of left-wing versus right wing but right versus wrong. If both of you would care to read the following articles you might grudgingly agree that Murray has a point. I am not in any way critical of the vast majority of muslims who are totally absolved from grooming and sex crimes but there is a real problem with Pakistani men which I have commented on and is a proven fact.If necessary I can quote various senior muslims who have spoken against these men.

    ukpaedos-exposed.com/muslim-paedo-rings-in-the-uk-why-how/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2977034/Police-social-services-face-brutal-criticism-report-revealing..

    If you look on the internet there are MANY other articles on the same subject. Surely,you both must understand that the problem of Pakistani groomers must be speedily and thoroughly addressed for the sake of the muslim community in the UK quite apart from the hundreds/thousands of young girls being attacked. To receive an admission from you that this problem exists would be welcome but a huge surprise!!

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    • I don’t think anyone here denies that there is a problem with many forms of abuse including paedophilia and that this is evident in all demographics including Pakistani Muslims (the one group you like to isolate for special attention). Far from ignoring this issue we see it as a much bigger problem than you, David because we’d like to see it effectively addressed throughout all demographics. Personally I’d like to hear you admit that these problems appear among white, Christian communities too (because they very clearly do).

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  2. ebfblogger,here we go yet again ad infinitum ad nauseam! You just cannot or will not desist from bringing WHITE and CHRISTIAN offenders into all your comments.How on God’s earth do you know that these are all white and/or Christian??.I understand that you are an agnostic but it does come across as blindingly obvious that being white and Christian is almost an offence to you.You are the antithesis of Pat Condell!

    Yes,of course, all the sex and grooming gangs are not all muslim but are very rarely in gangs and form a tiny minority of the population of the UK compared to the muslim one. The Pakistani gangs also attack Sikh girls as they also are infidels. It’s all on the internet from where you quote extensively.

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      • ebfblogger, I can only go on the evidence of your post on this-and other blogs that your “balance” is about as balanced as a pair of wonky scales! Your prejudice comes through clear and unambiguous on so many occasions. A true Islamic apologist would not present a better case.

        Just remember that you being an agnostic is anathema in the Qur’an and even more unacceptable to my being a Christian.

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          • When elements of ISIS enter the UK as is IMO and that of many senior police such as Cressida Dick,Met Police Assistant Commissioner,bound to happen sooner than later and carrying out attacks from individual ones up to the extent of 7/7, individual ones are most likely to be attacks on atheists and agnostics who are specifically targeted in a number of verses in the Qur’an. Christians and Jews come later.

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            • There’s the big difference between you and me, David. You think that’s a valid point and I do not.

              It makes no difference to me whether the targets of extremists share my beliefs or not. People are all equal.

              I don’t fear Muslims because of ancient verses any more than I fear Christians or Jews whose holy books are also very nasty on places but very few believers act on them. Those that do are just criminals and whoever they target the tragedy is the same.

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              • ebf,for a blindingly obvious intelligent person you do sometimes stray into dangerous territory. As George Orwell pointed out “All animals are equal but some are more equal than others” It has been so since the beginning of homo erectus.For many life was not meant to be fair it seems.

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                  • It is not just a question of demographics, It can be greed and a longing for power and sometimes a supremacist belief.Occasionally, as in the case of Nazism one of a Master race and at others,religion. A very confusing picture but life is often that way.

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    • David, your accusation against ebfblogger can easily be levelled at you – just replace white with Asian or Pakistani and Christian with Muslim. You are saying that Jimmy Savile, Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter and others like them from that era who have been found guilty are/were not white? Also I suspect that many of the same people would have identified as Christian. The point is that there is no evidence that these grooming and sex gangs are disproportionately Asian/Pakistani or Muslim. Even if that were the case so what? They still barely make up a large proportion of the overall population in that demographic. Also even if that were true for lets say Pakistanis (I have heard a lot that there is a genuine problem amongst them) so what? Education and dealing with perpetrators is the way to deal with the issue, not to go assuming that every Pakistani is guilty just because they are Pakistani that isn’t how our justice system works thankfully. It would be like me saying every English (by a Biffer style definition of white and “pure lineage” of being born in England) person is a white supremacist.

      What ebfblogger, myself and Terry have been trying to say all this time is that the paedophile issue is much wider than just a Muslim issue or an Asian/Pakistani. I only single out Pakistanis because you have and because it is quite common for Pakistanis to be brought up in relation to this in the media. Also you do not do yourself any favours in changing our opinions on your sources when you use the Daily Mail as a source who is consistently criticised by both the left and right for being sensationalist, scaremongering, heavily biased and occasionally printing something that just simply is not true. Yet despite that we still give your sources a look at so I think that says a lot really.

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      • I have noticed that David keeps bringing up certain verses from the quran; cherry picking the bad bits as literal and/or out of context, yet, when any of us to the same with his chosen faith for comparison (easily done as they all originate from the same place and time), he gets quite angsty about it. Double standards much?

        Fortunately for him and other followers of his faith, though, Christians are not the current scapegoats of the world and considered to more likely be a terrorist or paedophile. Luckily for David, the KKK or Westboro Baptist Church are considered to be loonies (not the left kind though, I’m sure, haha!), and do not represent any “true” christian denomination.

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      • grizzlyvamp and Terry, it must appear to both of you that I go out of my way to refute the veracity of some of ebfblogger’s blogs,indeed to derive pleasure from so doing.Nothing could be further from the truth,but it is the truth that I am seeking to establish.

        I have already demonstrated very clearly in my internet references that it is PAKISTANI men who form the vast majority of the sex and grooming gangs. I quote: ” Pakistan is a source,transit and destination for men,women and children trafficked for the purpose of forced labour and sexual exploitation” US State Department Trafficking in Persons Report,June 2009. ” Today in Pakistan respect for women no longer exists and crimes against them have increased dramatically.The men claim to have “Islamized”us.How can you Islamize people who are already Muslim? Ever since Zia al Haq gave power to the mullahs it seems that every man feels he can get hold of a female and tear her apart”-Ms Farkandar Iqbal,Deputy Police Superintendent,Lahore,Pakistan.

        Yes,the problem of grooming young girls for sex is not confined to Pakistani men but the overriding problem IS with these men who believe implicitly -from the Qur’an-that it is a form of Jihad to subdue”infidel” girls,almost exclusively white but also Sikh,also infidels,and do whatever they want with them as a “right”

        grizzlyvamp, I agree with you about the Daily Mail but in this instance I do believe that the subject in question is far too important and even inflammatory for the DM to falsify its account. Anyway, I do not see any news that it is the subject of a trial for libel by any in the muslim community nor of any action by the police.

        Finally,I am pleased and grateful that you will read up on the references I gave you.

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        • David, I assure that you come across as very intelligent, but very biased and determined to vilify a particular group of people. This is where we as a group (that is Terry, ebfblogger, and I) disagree with you David, we do not see the necessity to emphasise the failings of a particular group of people as you clearly have been doing as it only leads one way – Holocaust. There is no getting away from the very scary logic that following your points through to their logical conclusion of removing that group of people to avoid the perceived issue from occurring even though it will carry on anyway as it is not exclusive to one group of people as we have been pointing out right from the start. The reason we have chosen to tend to focus on white Christians mostly is because you seem to believe (as Britain First believe) that there is no such thing as white “Christian” paedophiles even though there are and that is what we are trying to point out.

          Let’s just entertain for a moment that you are right and a large proportion of Pakistani men are forming the sex and grooming gangs that we are all agreed are horrendous and need to be stopped. Let us assume that correlating all successful convictions (not those which have either failed for whatever reason or been turned over due to evidence proving innocence) that Pakistanis form a 51+% majority and so can be considered a threat. How does this correlate to the UK Pakistani population? Is there clear evidence that people of Pakistani origin in the UK? In other words do the members of these gangs form a significantly larger proportion to the overall population compared with any other group? If the answers to these questions show that there is a clear problem in this group then the question becomes how do we deal specifically with this group of people?

          First and foremost to make a big deal about it is the worst thing we can do as this in no way encourages this group to change their culture and will only cause resentment. Secondly, though it is an issue we DO NOT make a big deal of it as again it only encourage resentment. Thirdly, these men are already being dealt with by the police and are being punished in accordance to our laws – that should be enough for anyone living in this country. Fourthly, capital punishment has been unused and deemed unlawful here for around 20 years or so and has not been in any way proven to be any more effective in crime prevention than more restorative/corrective punishments. Fifthly assuming we used capital punishment and the penalty for paedophilia was death if found guilty and every time it was emphasised that a Pakistani was convicted we would find ourselves with a witch hunt that would inevitably lead to vigilante groups targeting innocent men simply because they are of Pakistani origin. No matter how you look at it your outlook, attitude and line of thought lead to a very grim future which will in no way aid the situation but confound it.

          All this is rather pop psychology and not even factoring in Islamic believes however I think it illustrates the point I want to make and illustrates why we want things done differently. If Pakistanis are causing a problem we can address the issue through education and restorative/corrective punishment so that the issue stops being such a big issue within that population over time. If you go around telling people that they are paedophiles then slowly but surely you will start to find that they become what you label them – especially if they have been abused as a child and therefore have that kind of vulnerable background in the first place which abusers often share. I could carry on but I think the point has been made.

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          • grizzlyvamp,good morning. On the subject of this blog this will be my final response to your post as in my posts of 3 June,8 June and 9 June I have made the strongest possible case regarding Pakistani grooming gangs including references.

            Surely,when you find cancer in a person or persons you do whatever is necessary to remove it. These grooming and sex slave gangs are a fast growing cancer in our nation and must be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law., as much as anything for the sake of the muslim community as a whole which has suffered by being lumped in with these horrors. Frankly I am incredulous that faced with all the evidence I have uncovered and referred to in my posts that you still query the FACT that it is Pakistani men who present the greatest problem. By the way I have always acknowledged that WHITE men,some calling themselves Christian are involved but generally they do not form gangs and do not subject their victims to the various disgusting assaults on these young white and Sikh women and children carried out by the Pakistani men..

            To make a very big deal of this disgusting business is to my mind essential “pour encourager les autres” and to punish the perpetrators with long prison sentences. How on earth do you believe that such men can be educated? In general Islam treats women as intellectually,morally and physically inferior. The source for rape and taking of sex slaves in Islam goes right back to Muhammad himself Quran 33 v 50 “Prophet we have made lawful for you the wives of those slain in battle and the slave girls whom God has given you in booty” With Muhammad being to all muslims the “perfect” man is it any wonder that sexual gratification in Islam is rampant particularly in Pakistan often seen as the rape capital of the muslim world as I have already illustrated

            I really must take issue on two points you have made. It has taken more than TEN years for the police to take action because they were afraid of being called “racists” a word which I regret to say has been used by the muslim community when it is threatened in any way.This failure is exposed extensively in my three posts above.Next,where on earth have I ever mentioned capital punishment as a deterrent?? In FACT as a Christian it is anathema to me. Finally,I contend that the way you would tackle the problem is impractical,unworkable,totally ineffective and would only make a very bad situation much worse

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            • As opposed to the 30 odd years it took to do something about Jimmy Savile? Sorry but your argument there falls flat even if there is any truth to it. It was long suspected that Jimmy Savile wasn’t quite right yet he got a knighthood, presenting children’s programs spanning at least 2 decades, did charitable work with children and not once were the allegations that were brought against him taken seriously enough – it took about a year after his death just for things to come out that prompted Operation Yewtree and its sister investigations. Jimmy Savile got away with it so long because of his celebrity status so frankly your “it took more than 10 years for fear of being labelled racists” argument doesn’t wash in the slightest. Not least because if anything as the years have gone on being labelled a racist has become more of a taboo not less and in my rather broad experience of this it has very often been racists who are most worried of being labelled racist in the first place! Also there was evidence that Jimmy Savile was not only not alone in the BBC and even used those people in the BBC to help him get away with it and vice versa. Sounds an awful lot like a grooming/sex gang to me. Also in more recent years you hear about these on-line groups which are basically grooming/sex forums so effectively an on-line equivalent which are used by white people.

              Okay I may have made error in my argument in the way I spoke about capital punishment however I stand by the crux of what I said. The fact of the matter the part of the brain that deals with the type of logic you use always ends up triggering the primal part that demands defence triggering the fight or flight mechanism and we don’t have to look far into history to see where the fight gets us.

              Again with your cherry-picking, surely there would be an awful lot more Muslims who were/are paedophiles if the Quran really encouraged this. The fact of the matter is there is no clear indication of this being a systemic problem amongst Muslims (as you admit yourself) and therefore your reaction to Islam is unnecessary as far more people would prescribe to the the type of Islam you talk about. As a Christian myself I believe we should engage in discussion with Muslims (and anyone else who is non-Christian) about our faith as we are all called to evangelise to some degree (just look at the great commission at the end of Matthew) however that is all we can do. Anything beyond that is forcing our faith onto others which was not asked of in the Bible and as you no doubt are aware is very much frowned upon in today’s society. We are even called to turn the other cheek that we might heap burning coals on our enemies – I know I’m poorly paraphrasing here but the essence of what I’m saying still holds true. Jesus, to me, tells us quite plainly to leave the consequences of the law to Him who will punish everything righteously in His perfect timing. Frankly it is getting tiresome that you will insist on making a bigger thing of this than is necessary and until you desist in this you are going to find that you will have opponents on here.

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              • grizzlyvamp,straight away I just have to tell you that if the “opponents” on EBF produce responses to my posts like your latest then I will not be in any way concerned. Yet another, I would contend to be a prime example of circumlocution,muddled thinking,inaccuracies and paranoia. I do wonder why your posts are inevitably a rebuttal of mine.Is it because you just cannot bear to think that a number of my posts may just have greater validity to a number of yours?

                If you are determined to bandy words with me,may I implore you to make your responses much shorter and devoid of lectures on Christian principles which I understand every bit as well as you. Just to inform you,rape and sexual exploitation was, as far as I remember,not a concern in Israel during Christ’s lifetime on earth but if it had been I am certain that He would have handed the perpetrator to the Sanhedrin for punishment. You will of course be very conversant with St.Matthew Ch 18 v5 and 6.

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                • To start off David I do my best to be as direct as possible even if I do get side-tracked or use a few words more than maybe was necessary. Nice of you to spot my thought process – good observation. Mneh occasionally I maybe a bit inaccurate or over simplified however talking to a brick wall is very frustrating. As for paranoia I do not believe I have displayed any sign of paranoia and quite frankly is irrelevant to any debate. As to why I keep clashing with you? I’m not sure but I once knew someone who you remind me of in some ways, someone who I had an uneasy friendship with. Not that I am trying to be your friend or anything I just strongly disagree with your outlook.

                  As for my “lectures on Christian principles” perhaps if you displayed these basic principles more I wouldn’t keep directing you back to them. As for handing perpetrators over to the Sanhedrin I am not so convinced, Jesus held the Sanhedrin in some contempt and held it authority only because his Father had given it to them and in fact would be at odds with how he dealt with all varieties of sinner. However dealing in what ifs and maybes is unhelpful and not adding to the debate. Again as to the validity of my own arguments I will leave that for others to judge. Perhaps it would be better to leave this here and just move on to another debate as there is clearly nothing more to be discussed here that is relevant.

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                  • grizzlyvamp,I quite forgot to mention that if you bothered to read my posts more carefully you would not make SO many mistakes in reply. Regarding the Qur’an “encouraging” muslims to take sex slaves I have already pointed you to Q 33 v 50 where it was permitted. That dispensation is surely meat and drink to any muslim who believes that any infidel girl or woman is his to do with as he wants as I have already pointed out in an earlier post giving references to the problem in, and from, Pakistan.

                    When there really is a problem of a relatively few miscreants helping to give a large majority a bad name then,surely, everything possible must be done to dissuade and punish them?

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                    • I seem to remember Joshua took the women of Jericho as sex slaves too. Is that not right, David? Sexual slavery is a theme in many ancient texts from many different cultures (both Eastern and Western) and says more about ancient values than any modern religion.

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                    • Yes, we should punish those miscreants that do break the law but making a big deal about it only serves to “justify” a witch hunt where anyone which vaguely fits a preconceived idea of a Muslim. I’m arguing that these harsher punishments do not help the prevention and only serve in further isolating more Muslims increasing the likelihood that they will turn to the more extreme acts. Vilifying an entire group of people is wrong, and dangerous end of. By all means vilify the individuals if you must but don’t go emphasising religion or race for the reasons I have been trying to get through to you right from the off.

                      I am with ebfblogger on the topic of sex slaves and slavery in general.

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      • grizzlyvamp, I do not need to justify my posts on this blog especially when others who also really understand the “problem” do me a favour. The situation in Sweden makes the UK’s problem resemble a vicar’s tea party.
        Sweden:Rape Capital of the West. http://gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
        The authors are almost universally known and respected.

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        • Really, by saying that it appears to me that you feel you do have to justify your posts. I decided to to a quick bit of research on the authors of this particular article and low and behold I find out they are exactly the sort of gun-hoe, anti-Islamic at any cost people I have come to expect you to admire especially Ingrid. Quite frankly when I started reading about her she started to sound quite similar to you – anyone who does not share your particular view on Islam is stupid/naive etc etc. I could go on or go to Lars but I’m not about discrediting the authors to discredit the article. Really my point is I may not know about how known they are but as for “universally” respected I suspect I wouldn’t be going too far to suggest “universal” means anyone who strongly dislike Islam and I only pull this out because you pulled out the respect of the authors.

          Unfortunately the sources the article provides are in Swedish and I have neither, the time, inclination or skill (I don’t have handy translation software to hand and using google or a similar translation tool would take too long) however the fact that the first source does not exist, meaning it has either since been removed or never existed in the first place, I find to be ominous and typical of gatestone. Skimming the article and lack of sources which still exist of the statistical data (which as we all know can easily be manipulated and has to be treated carefully to gain accurate insight into the results) leads me to think as much of the article as I do any of the many other articles you have directed us to on that site.

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          • grizzlyvamp,it was never my need to justify my pointing out the blindingly obvious problem of Islamist grooming and sex slaves not only in the UK but especially in Sweden. The authors know more about this problem than you could learn in a month of Sundays. Unfortunately,it is people just like you who dismiss a most serious problem and work on the three monkeys syndrome,would not face the problem if you saw it happen and would always leave it up to others to clear up the mess.

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  3. ebfblogger, my whole take on Islam is best summed up by one of the most important and most powerful MUSLIMS in the world, President of Egypt,Abdel Fattah al-Sisi.

    In a New Year’s Day(Muhammad’s birthday) 2015 address to a large audience of leading imams,senior clerics and Muslim politicians the President said ” We must have a religious revolution because the Islamic world is being torn,being destroyed,being lost. It is inconceivable that the thinking we hold most sacred should cause the entire Islamic world to be a source of anxiety,danger,killing and destruction for the rest of the world”

    This is a man who faced huge criticism for attending the New Year’s Eve Mass in the Coptic Christian Cathedral in Cairo. All right you may say,his treatment of the Muslim Brotherhood contravenes human rights but there are no countries in the Muslim world which observe them or pay any attention to the 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights.

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  4. ebfblogger,I do so hope that the often long wait before my posts are moderated does not have some sort of a hidden agenda so that other posters are unable to see my replies to their posts?!

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    • The world doesn’t revolve around you, David and I don’t sit around waiting for you to comment just so I can respond promptly. I have other things to do. Here’s a tip – if you weren’t so abusive in some of your posts you wouldn’t need to have your comments moderated. However since you regularly flame other commenters I’m afraid you’ll just have to put up with waiting for one of us to have time to moderate your comments.

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      • Very fair comment so I will modify my posts in future. However, I do believe that not enough research is done in responding to my usually well-founded comments and that I am being got at because I seem to be the ONLY poster on here who is not a dedicated left-winger.

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        • Think what you will. The policy is clear. If you repost without the insults to other posters your posts will get through. The fact that many people here (myself included) will disagree with you is neither here nor there, David.

          This isn’t BF. We at EBF understand the need to accept opposing voices into discussions, however ill-informed or abhorrent they may seem.

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          • Of course you would never admit that to many centre right posters(only ONE on here) you have just described a goodly number of your own comments!!

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            • Of course I’ll ‘admit’ that. Not sure I agree with your definition of ‘centre’ right though.

              My opinions are as abhorrent to racists and Nazis as theirs are to me. Actually I’m quite pleased about that. It shows that I’m not like them which is definitely a good thing, David 🙂

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              • Dear Lady ebfblogger, my opinion on a number of subjects varies with that subject. I can be right wing,centre right,centre,even left of centre on various topics. Personally I find the labeling of people by “wings” is plain daft but,especially on here, it appears to be a favourite ploy,generally to attack anyone not firmly LEFT.

                Without a crumb of condescension or patronising I congratulate you for your blogs but the hatred you display in very many of them I believe lessens their message.Intense dislike is surely enough,leave “hatred” to such groups as BF,the EDL, the BNP-and UAF to spout and make themselves hated.

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    • Well – you might look a little less like a Nazi if you can justify your earlier comment. And for the record, David – your posts are never edited in any way as you know. I’m just making that clear for everyone else here.

      Their either published or they’re not. When you’re abusive they’re deleted. When you’re reasonable and on topic they get published.

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  5. I am particularly concerned that my well researched post at 4.38 pm (actually 5.38 pm) has not yet been moderated,nor those on the muslims against Isis blog Would you be so good as to let me know why??..

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  6. Thank God you are not!! Anyway I never had the pleasure of being taught by one. Would you be so kind as to inform me of other blogs?

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  7. ebfblogger, I am truly grateful for your passing what I believe is my most telling comment on this blog. I fully take on board and admit to my use of sarcasm and “flaming” which is both unpleasant and unnecessary and which I will avoid in future and I fully accept your warning on this. I intend to “toe the line” so to speak and I do hope that in future my comments will not need to be moderated?!

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    • David, it’s a real shame that so many of your posts contain imflammatory insults (even after your recent comment promising to stop being so abusive). Some of them contain points that would be worth discussing if only you’d post them without your habitual abuse of other blog users.

      Feel free to try commenting without the insulting remarks and they’ll get through.

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      • I’m curious to know what he’s saying now! Have we upset him that much? Mind you, I’m not sure if it is even worth replying to him anymore as interesting as it can be sometimes; the comments have the same circular pattern that always seem to end with him getting angsty and upset and then apologising, then a new circle emerges – usually on another blog post.

        Still, I enjoy it though! 😀

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  8. David, I have some questions if I may: I’m curious, how did you learn of this blog? Do you follow EBF on Facebook too? If you oppose BF like we do, then why do you try to convince us how bad islam is like they do? What are you trying to achieve by challenging us? Do you feel the world would be better off without the religion? If so, why not every religion including yours?

    Apologies for not being on topic here, but I’m not sure where else to ask.

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    • If you BOTH wish I’ll copy and paste these questions into a seperate post where it will be ‘on topic’. But I think it’s only fair that David has a chance to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to that idea first.

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      • ebfblogger,I notice,particularly that there is NO REPLY button on yours and Terry’s latest comments on my post about sex slaves.Yet another hidden agenda??!

        I believe that I should very clearly point out to you both that as far as I know Islam is the ONLY religion/ideology where the rape and taking of sex slaves is permitted in its holy book and,certainly,the only one where these abominations have been carried out in huge numbers right through its history.

        I strongly suggest that you both find an English language version of the Qur’an(the N.J Dawood,the one I use) is generally accepted as the nearest to the original Uthmam version, and look at Q4 vs 1-6,Q23 v24,Q 33 v50 and Q 70 v 29 &30 to elucidate yourselves. Of course, miscreants from every known religion have been guilty of rape and still are but no religion/ideology in the history of mankind has been so prolific as Islam. Of course I know that I will be the recipient of more attacks from both of you in double quick time whereas other pertinent posts of mine going back DAYS are either not yet moderated or deleted.One law for other posters and another for me!!

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        • grizzlyvamp,the way you fawningly agree with EVERY one of ebfblogger’s blogs I find somewhat nauseating. For someone with your education and intelligence I find it most surprising. I suppose it is the case that left-wingers must always stick together on this board to repel right-wing invaders numbering ONE!! I also find it wrong and sad that you and eblogger so obviously seem to believe that all/any comment from the right MUST be plain wrong.

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        • There’s no hidden agenda, David. The setting is, I think ‘7’ embedded comments. That stops text getting too disjointed. You can still reply after the limit has been reached but you need to do so in a new section of the reply stream.

          I have published most of your comments , even though I consider many to be imflammatory. I reserve the right not to publish your more abusive comments. That’s in keeping with the explicit (IE not hidden) agenda outlined in the post at the top of this blog.

          You are the only commenter whose comments are moderated in this way because you are the only commenter who is persistently abusive to other blog users. The rule is constant and applies to everyone equally. If you’re abusive you get moderated. Since others have been more reasonable than you they are not subject to those restrictions. However if another commenter acted in an equally abusive way and demonstrated the same lack of maturity in respecting others’ right to their opinion without personal insults they too would find their comments earmarked for moderation in exactly the same way.

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    • Terry and ebfblogger I am perfectly happy to reply to Terry’s question now.It may not be the reply you both desired!

      Having studied the Qur’an,Hadith and Sunnah for some 15 years I am forced to believe that Islam is not suitable for a Western democracy. The reasons are that Islam is not merely a religion it is an ideology where its law-Sharia- commands every facet of one’s life and demands SUBMISSION to Allah. It is political,militaristic,social,legal,philosophical 24/7. The Qur’an and the Sunnah are the expressions of God’s command,the definitive and inscrutable will of Allah that must be obeyed absolutely,without doubts.without questions and without qualifications.Unlike a democracy there is no division between church and state. No Islamic state has even nearly complied with the 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights.It has not altered one word from the more violent Medina Quran following the less violent Mecca version where Muhammad first introduced it and Muslims are commanded to observe EVERY WORD and regard Muhammad as the “perfect man” despite his very many imperfections and misdeeds faithfully recorded in the Sunnah!

      If BF was at all intelligent it would be far better for them to attack Islam rather than muslims which ensures that all reasonable people despise BF. Horrors like Anjem Choudary with his totalitarian ultra orthodox version of Islam has most unfortunately done a HUGE disservice to muslims in democracies just trying their very best to live happy,fulfilled,useful,law abiding lives integrating successfully with other communities. I have never criticised muslims per se,indeed I am very sorry that they were born into their ideology.

      Finally, I earnestly believe and wish that ALL countries become SECULAR entities where religion of any denomination is totally separate from the state. Unfortunately for muslims the dictators of the Ummah(worldwide Islam) in despotic countries like Saudi Arabia,Sudan,Qatar,Syria and Iran are hardly likely to accede! Even the so-called Islamic democracies.Turkey,Indonesia,Pakistan,Lebanon are still ruled through Shari’a and religion is wedded to their constitutions-if they have them!

      Please try not to enter into a debate with me refuting my post.I can do no more than giving you both an honest,personal reply to your question., Terry. I just cannot believe in the validity of an ideology that demands compliance to its every command.

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    • Terry, I am most grateful to you and to ebfblogger for giving me the licence to reply to your post.

      The huge mistake that BF make is that they attack muslims rather than the Qur’an.Muslims are born into their ideology and EVERY one of the four Islamic schools of jurisprudence including the Al Azhar University in Cairo,the leading one, would issue a fatwa of a death penalty for any muslim for apostasy.As you probably know Article 18 of the 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights states ” Everyone has the right to freedom of thought,conscience and religion: this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief” .However,under great pressure from many Muslim countries in November 1981,the UN changed this Article from “to change”one’s religion which was deleted and “a right to HAVE a religion” was retained.

      As I mentioned before I strongly believe that every form of government must be separate from the religion of the country,particularly true democracies(probably an oxymoron) and unworkable and/or unacceptable in almost every Islamic country, something also agreed with by Al Azhar University and most Islamic scholars.

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      • David, this could very well be my last response to you as I find you to be the most perplexing commenter I’ve come across in recent times; you’re quite inconsistent in your replies and I’m honestly finding your posts to be tedious now. This time, you can say accurately that I am being churlish, but also I am just observant and honest about how I feel about your online persona here. Anyway…

        You know, I do actually agree with you when you say that Islam should be (and indeed does) criticised. But then we begin to differ as Islam seems to be the only religion (or ideology as you like to call it) whereas I like to equally criticise ALL religions. As a humanist, religion to me, is archaic and has no place in today’s society. Regardless of how I feel about religion, I don’t care that people still want to believe in their chosen (or indoctrinated from an early age) deity. That’s where we also differ.

        I quite happily live and let live as most religious folks don’t do any harm. But you seem to imply that because Islam, to you, is a very barbaric and vile “ideology” you imply that muslims have some sort of hidden agenda (bizarrely, EBF too?!). Correct me if I am wrong. You happily cherry pick verses from the quran but don’t care about what occurrences are documented in your own precious bible or just simply overlook/ignore it. They all have barbaric stories of infanticide, genocide, paedophilia (different times man. age of consent hardly existed in those days if at all), rape, murder and the very gods themselves are guilty of being a part of these heinous atrocities are at the very least, seemingly condoning them!

        Thank fuck then that most religious folk, yes that includes muslims, do not take everything to be literal and certainly do not apply whatever lack morality existed back then to present day. I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish here David. Who cares what was written in ancient books? look around, do you see many muslims behaving as you seem to suggest they should if they fervently believe in the quran? Well, of course the extremists do, but the global consensus is fuck them and let’s try and eradicate them if they don’t want to progress.

        The people who you keep quoting from and their websites all at their very core, believe in the “islamification” of whatever country they are in. It’s all a load of paranoid bollocks and that’s why i do not take jihad Watch or the whatever institute seriously. They seem to have an agenda themselves.

        Anyway, yes let’s criticise islam but also christianity and the plethora of other religion too, whilst not condemning those who do practice their faith and accuse them of being potential paedophiles or whatever. Or just waste the remainder of your life (you’re an old man, right?) being angry towards one religion because…it’s cool to do so at the moment? Bah, I’m honestly surprised you are not with BF – if you’re telling the truth of course.

        Anyway, I’m at the end of my tether now. Concerning you David, I don’t think there is going to be much more to say. I can’t be arsed to repeat arguments ad nauseum. There’s some fun to be had in life while I still have a spring in my step.

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        • I share much of your sentiments here Terry however I personally feel dissatisfied with the ever increasing conventional western thinking about religion. I’m going to be controversial here and out right say that those who are not Christians are wrong in their belief. The bible is very clear on this and to have any other stance in my opinion is to water down the message of the bible in an attempt to make it more palatable to some of a certain disposition. I am open minded enough to admit that I could be wrong in my beliefs and that I am mistaken this doesn’t stop me accepting others who have different beliefs to me. However I am strong enough in my convictions through the evidence I have seen and my own experiences to be fairly damn sure of my own beliefs. Some of them are based on semantics and I can live with that but the core of my beliefs (Jesus died and rose again 3 days later for the redemption of sins) are black and white and to hold them leads me to believe that anything else cannot bring redemption. Perhaps in saying that it is absolutely wrong is the wrong way of going about it however I think the sentiment is there. At the end of the day it is up to an individual what the believe and their own conviction as to how if at all they put forward their own convictions to others, you can’t force someone to believe something they don’t want to and it would be counter-productive to try and that is my honest view on religion. Sorry if this isn’t the best post to express these views in.

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          • Well if you’re a fervent christian with strong convictions, then it’s no surprise you’d think that way. Of course, I beg to differ; I on the other hand am quite pleased that people are becoming, I guess, more secular – no doubt thanks to advances in technology and scientific discoveries.

            But I am no militant internet atheist (that have populated the internet in recent years) who’s going to challenge your faith. Besides, it’d be futile and I wouldn’t achieve anything as I’m sure you have heard/read all counter arguments before upteenth times, correct? And obviously this isn’t the place for such a discussion anyway as we’ll be veering waaaay off topic!

            Like you, I’m ok with people practicing their faith. I only get annoyed if it slips into politics or attempts are made to proselytise people – christians especially (in my lifetime, I have not had any person from another faith come knocking on my door) are known going door-to-door to talk about their god and jesus.

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            • The reason secularism is becoming more popular is for the reasons you mention however I would go as far as to say that there are reasons beyond supposed evidence there is no God (gods). Take technology advancement – it is in my opinion making society colder and more suspicious of each other where most religion relies on strong, positive community to thrive, being simplistic here but I think the point is made. As for scientific evidence, in many cases I have found there is an agenda to undermine any religion and anything will be used to corroborate that. I find personally that whilst there is evidence that there does not necessarily require a God/creator that is in itself not evidence that there is no God/creator. I find the precision in which many of the fundamental constants have to be for the universe to be as we see it rather compelling evidence for a God/creator. I dismiss the infinite alternate universes theory and variations there of as to my mind they are just as improbable as a God/creator and as scientifically testable as God/creator. You also have the issue of where did those universes come from and if ours somehow came from them that would mean that they would still have to more or less follow the laws of physics we see in this universe as the material would logically have to be the same.

              As I said, I am not against having my faith challenged – however I do have issue when it is hypocritically done such as with the militant, internet atheists you have mentioned and I am sure we have all experienced. In other words do not challenge my faith unless you expect me to challenge yours back. Yes I have heard the counterarguments so many times it gets rather annoying sometimes. I also agree that cold calling people homes is unproductive, a nuisance and generally harmful to the cause. As you note we’re way off topic here though but I will happily further discuss this if you like and ebfblogger is agreeable to giving us that platform.

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          • grizzlyvamp, on this subject I bow to your strength of our faith and the eloquence with which you state your case. I would have struggled even to begin to match you. In fact I would not have been able to as the misdeeds of my youth and middle age made it so difficult to call myself a Christian. This may not be the best blog to express your views but they make for excellent reading.

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        • Terry,good morning.If I may say so I believe that you are working yourself into a lather about my post quite unnecessarily. I reckon that I have made it crystal clear that EVERY government in the world should separate itself from whatever religion is followed in that country and have a SECULAR government which I contend should satisfy your delicate sentiments! I must say that your supreme overuse of the words “cherry pick” are becoming very tedious. There are SO many violent and destructive verses in the Qur’an and Hadith that those words are invidious. I fail to understand what on earth you are on about in your fifth paragraph?? The people you mention in FACT believe in exactly the opposite of what you complain about.

          As far as my being inconsistent I contend that as far as Islam is concerned I have always been unfailingly consistent as I have been in separating that horrid ideology from those who must follow it because they are born into it and would generally face death for leaving it. Of course I cannot control your wild imaginings but they are the result of your not reading my post properly. For example I just do not comprehend what you are on about when you accuse me of a “hidden agenda” with regard to muslims. I have very regularly in all my posts on this subject differentiated between so-called “moderate” muslims and the extreme ones.

          I am an old man but I do not believe that I am wasting the rest of my life criticising Islam. If my view of Islam makes even one or two people look into this horrid ideology then I feel that I have achieved something. After all if powerful,influential,committed muslims like Abdel Fattah al-Sisi President of Egypt and other well-known muslim scholars are calling for Islam to be looked at and substantially revised because of its deleterious effect on the non-muslim world then why would you dismiss my post??

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          • Oh I can’t resist! Good morning to you too, David. It’s a pleasant day so I’ll be drinking some much needed ale in the afternoon, and thus I’m in a better mood today. Anyway, your first several sentences I find agreeable, hoorah! But it inevitably goes downhill from there.

            You’re right: I do over the words “cherry pick” but it is because that is what you do, David! There are SO many violent and destructive verses in the Quran and the rest of the abrahamic books, as well as the more pleasant and peaceful verses, but you only focus on the quran’s bad stuff and allude that muslims should be angry or something because of it. Of course, most are not though. You will be delighted to hear that i shall refrain from using those words again; hell, if you can’t grasp what I and others are saying by now, then I doubt you ever will and thus it’ll just be futile to keep mentioning it. Keep up the good fight continuing to highlight those bad verses!

            Well, if the likes of Geller and Spencer believe in the EXACT opposite, then perhaps you should go and question them on why they have set up a not-so-subtle-sounding organisation called Stop Islamization of America. Because now I am very baffled! As so should you be.

            I should have clarified on what I meant by you being inconsistent in your posts: there are times when you come across politely and gentlemanly and others, well, I can’t say as your posts are removed for being “abusive”. Of course, it is unfortunate that anyone is “born into” a religion. Babies are not born into anything that their parents don’t force upon them. But this, again, applies to all religions. There should be no such thing as a christian baby nor a muslim baby, but currently there are. Thankfully, at least in western society, people can make their own choices when they grow older. In all cultures, there are problems with people being disowned because of the paths they choose, not just in islamic culture. Westboro Baptist Church is a prime example – although they do not face death, but there are serious psychological impacts on the children which is still fucking horrible.

            Did I say you have a hidden agenda? I said you have accused others of having hidden agendas (ebf for example) and I accused those you idolise having hidden agendas. Tell me again of reading comprehension though 🙂

            I think everyone and those living under rocks are well aware of islam and some of the horrid things committed in its name. I mean, fuck, it’s hard to escape from it all. Constantly, muslims and their behaviour are the focus of many news stories; alas, they are the current scapegoats of the world; continuously picked upon and discriminated against because of people’s tendency to group fasten, generalise and stereotype – such flaws are things I personally want to focus on bettering. Believe me David, you are probably not making a speck of difference changing anybody’s views because, we have heard them all upteenth times before.

            Regarding your last few sentences, good on the guy I suppose. Hell, that’s what christians done, didn’t they? Not that is helped eradicate human flaws though which makes one question where do we really get our morality from? – perhaps a discussion for another time and another blog though.

            G’day.

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            • Terry,you might be very surprised to know that in my humble opinion any government would be a lot fairer, more equable, and more efficient if the majority of its members were HUMANISTS. My much loved and hugely respected brother is one as is my dearest friend who is the kindest,fairest,least judgmental and most balanced human being I have ever known.

              I am NOT trying to flatter you just expressing the truth..

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                • Terry,I really do apologise but my old eyes are very wonky these days and I need stronger lenses in my specs. I should explain that I consider that my post is very much pertinent to this blog. You would acknowledge that my criticism of Islam has never not,until THIS post included muslims per se but the video I urge you to see clearly demonstrates that in this case they are not only breaking the law of the state but abusing the human rights of other Parisian and French citizens.

                  See: The Islamization of Paris a Warning to the West. http://www.cbn.com/tv/1432527833001

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                  • Thank you for correcting the link, David. Unfortunately though, I am not currently able to view it as I’m using a dongle at the moment and watching videos will very quickly use up most, if not all of my remaining data, which I need for messaging friends and family. Once I get to use a wi-fi hotspot I will check it out though.

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                    • Terry,thank you for your reply.Being an “oldie” I am not all that acquainted with technical terms.What,please,is a dongle??

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                    • I’m having to reply to myself to reply to you, David, haha! A dongle is a portable device that you plug into your pc/laptop via the usb port which then grants you access to the internet. I have to “top it up” for data as I would a pay as you go phone in order to get online. Unfortunately, it costs quite a lot and I get very little data (£10 for 1gb/1 month of data), but I’m a bit too poor to afford broadband at the moment.

                      As I said, videos quickly drain data usage – a 10 minute video uses up to about 100mb I think. So I avoid watching videos when using my dongle.

                      There is a BTwifi-with-fon hotspot near my mother’s that I can sometimes access to get free internet, but its connection is often whimsical. Once I can get back on it, as I said, I’ll watch the video. Hope that explains it 🙂

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            • ebfblogger, if you google President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi’s New Years Day Speech you will find several comments and partial or almost complete sections of his speech. His speech was very controversial but respected because he is well-known to be a faithful muslim.

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          • I see nothing wrong with what he said. I’m not sure if majority of muslims would agree with him though – certainly not ISIS I’d wager! This violence committed in the name islam, sure it’s stems from them taking verses literally, but I think it could also possibly be more deep rooted than that too.

            What makes one commit such heinous crimes against humanity? There are so many things other than religion to factor I think; be it political, war, domestic problems, poverty, envy of western culture etc. What I’m saying, there needs to be some sort of deep psychological research in what makes one become such a horrid and evil person that they willingly kill anybody that doesn’t agree with their views. Alas, it would probably not be possible unless an extremist was willing to cooperate.

            From what I have learnt from my 27 years being on this planet is this: retaliating will invariably beget retaliation. We must use other tactics and approach such people as diplomatically as we can. I can only hope that Al-Sissi will be taken seriously with his religion revolution as it could very well be a start.

            My only issue is this: would it make a difference? Sorry to always having to compare to christianity,but they revised the bible, yes? And yet, extremists, paedophiles, bigots etc still exist within that religion too. We’ll just have to see I suppose. Anything we say is just pure speculation.

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  9. ebfblogger and Terry I did not comment on the misogyny in Islam which I find abhorrent but I could comment on that for a long time!

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  10. Terry, I really do not want to waste the time of other commenters on EBF by responding and anyway I reckon that this subject has been done to death.

    Like

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