Dear Jayda

BF Jayda Dudley speeches 3We’re really grateful to this follower who also happens to be something of an expert in ancestry research. There has been much speculation about Jayda “Dutchy” Fransen’s roots over the last year or so. There has been much speculation about her heritage – her degree of ‘Britishness’, if you like. There has been much speculation about the possibility that she may be an immigrant or hail from a family of recent immigrants to our fine, welcoming, multicultural society. Now we can all stop speculating and start ‘knowing’, thanks to the painstaking research of one of EBF’s dedicated followers.

So, without further ado we invite you to boil the kettle, make a nice hot cup of tea, put your feet up and read this wonderful open letter to Miss Jayda Fransen, a British citizen of distinctly foreign heritage…

Dear Jayda

You don’t deserve this. You don’t deserve my time, my energy or this gift. But I am going to give this to you anyway because as the adage goes; you don’t always get what you deserve.

I am a family history enthusiast. I am an amateur but after 10 years enjoying this hobby, I’m pretty good at it. I started following Exposing Britain First about a year ago and something struck me. Your surname. I’ve been studying family history now for long enough to suspect that you aren’t completely British. Fransen is not a British name. So I decided to have a little dig around. All the records I researched are in the public domain. You can look for yourself if you like.

Your family history is rich and I have to confess I am jealous. So far in my ancestry I have found no-one (and my “tree” is over one thousand people strong) who isn’t English. I am the product of an endless stream of Agricultural Labourers. I remember finding a shop-keeper once – and dancing round the room in delight. I am unremittingly English, through ten generations. Your family history on the other hand is exciting and shows tremendous courage and vibrancy. It is rooted in the East End of London. As now, the East End has always been a melting pot of cultures, religions and immigrants. It’s where people new to this country often start their lives.

Let’s start with your paternal grandparents; John Joseph Fransen, or rather Jan Jozef Wynand Fransen. Born in the Netherlands in 1927, Jan came to England with the Dutch Naval fleet. 26710 Leading writer Fransen was in the Royal Netherlands Navy and based in London during the Second World War, fighting the Nazis when most of the Netherlands was occupied or destroyed. The name Jan Jozef would have been a difficult one to live with during and after the Second World War; anything the least bit Germanic sounding was not something to be flaunted or advertised. So he changed it to John Joseph, the name you probably knew him by when he died in 1999.

BF compassion EBFWhilst here, he met and married your grandmother, Elizabeth Mary Cotter. They married in the Roman Catholic Church of Our Lady in Lisson Grove. I can find no record of Elizabeth being born in the UK. Most likely, both she and her father, John William Cotter were born in Ireland.

John William Cotter joined the Royal Leinster Regiment in 1913, intending perhaps to have a career in the Army. He was discharged before the beginning of the First World War for misconduct. From the records it appears that he was incessantly drunk and insubordinate. I can’t find out how he made it to London but there are records that appear to show him in the Fulham Road Workhouse in 1922. The workhouse was the somewhat barbaric “benefits” system of the day; where those too sick or without work were forced to go in order to survive. Your ancestor was not alone; throughout your family history there are frequent examples of your family receiving support in this most degrading and undiginified fashion.

On your maternal grandparent’s side of the family, the history is equally fascinating. Your great-grandfather is recorded in prison in the 1901 census. His crime isn’t mentioned and the records are currently sealed but wait a few years and you’ll be able to find out. And then there’s his surname; Silver. The Silver family were highly skilled workers, polishers and cabinet-makers. Why would they marry “beneath” their skill or financial status continually throughout the 19th Century. Speculating, the Silver’s had Jewish ancestry and even in the 19th Century, even though they were surrounded by other immigrants and those struggling with poverty, being Jewish or of Jewish ancestry wasn’t considered to be an asset. Silver is an extremely common anglicised surname, usually from Silber. I’ll keep searching, not for your benefit but for mine. You have no idea how exciting and interesting from an intellectual perspective it is to research such a diverse family history.

Immigrant ancestry Jayda BF EBFI imagine you would rather this was not your family history. I would give my “eye-teeth” to swap your ancestry for mine; endless farm workers get a little boring after a while. I am very, very English. You, on the other hand, are not. You are a melting pot of Dutch, Irish and Jewish roots. So I wonder, not “Who do you think you are?” but “What on earth do you think you are doing?” Your grandfather John (Jan Jozef) came to this country to fight for freedom and settled here. Your great-grandfather, an Irish immigrant was supported by the English “benefits” system, harsh though it was despite being an immigrant. And the Silvers? The highly skilled workers who married beneath them, integrated into English society so that their children and their children’s children, leading right to you could be part of this country and its culture, what would they say to you if they could. Probably much the same as the good, decent people of Exposing Britain First do now.

I’m sorry if this has upset you and I am sure you will want to deny it. But stop. It’s time to grow up and start representing your incredible family, your diverse, culturally rich ancestry like most British people do. With pride. This is who you are.

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333 thoughts on “Dear Jayda

    • No she didn’t. But we think this blog is the reason she admitted her family’s recent immigrant status on the BBC3 documentary ‘We want our country back’.

      Liked by 1 person

  1. She is a an imegrante .I wonder what she has to say about all this.she goes on abt how British she is.get a life jayda.

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    • Perhaps you should consult a dictionary before posting! The word is spelt IMMIGRANT. Jayda Fransen is NOT an immigrant because she was born in South London, as were both her parents and a sister. I know this for a fact because I am a professional genealogist and had been doing family history research for over 40 years. I found her birth and those of her parents in the birth records of the General Register Office for England and Wales. I am an expert and have appeared on television in an episode of Who Do You Think You Are?

      Can you not read and understand English? I have posted previously that she had one immigrant grandfather who was from Holland. This makes her only 25 per cent, i.e. one quarter, of immigrant stock. Surely that is clear?

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      • Yes it’s clear. In the light of her hypocrisy it makes no difference to the overall point. She’s descended from people who were persecuted upon arrival (Dutch, Irish Catholic & Jews). So yes, we bow to your superior knowledge over a point that in context (Jayda’s hypocritical persecution of immigrants & minorities) is really rather trivial.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Roy I wonder how many on here would shudder if they found out where their family originated from. Maybe it would shut a lot of them up lol

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  2. Whether this is a hit piece or not doesn’t seem to matter. I don’t think Britain First is against immigration per se, I believe they are against immigrants that don’t integrate into the culture of Britain. Im an american so I’m sure there’s a lot I don’t know of what goes on,

    But it seems that even if she’s a recent immigrant from the Netherlands, do the dutch people resist integrating into british society?, is there no-go zones in dutch communities in Britain?, have the dutch set up there own courts to try their own cases?

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    • You’re absolutely right – there’s an awful lot you don’t know about BF. They’re neo-nazis. Fransen copies the nazi propogandists of the last century, conveniently ignoring the impact of Nazis on occupied Holland, not to mention Dutch Jews.

      She’s a dangerous, neonazi hypocrite!

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      • But she was born in South London, so she is NOT an immigrant! Her grandfather was an immigrant from Holland who fought for Britain in WWII, but It doesn’t make her an immigrant or do you have a problem in understanding this concept? Both her parents were born in Britain and married in London.

        You and your organisation are just as obsessive and fanatical as you suggest she is. In my view, a plague on both your houses because you are both equally potty and deserve one another!

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          • …. as my opinion of your pedantry is (presumably) to you. Hate crime is rising (up 400% in the last 2 weeks) and the likes of Fransen continually fuel it. You can dismiss what we do here by all means but don’t expect us to take your self-important pedantry seriously. The stakes are far too high for anyone here to worry about your continual refusal to see the point of this blog.

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        • No need to get quite so hot under the collar Roy. You may be a well known genealogist, but you’re not in a position to tell other people what to think. The whole point is that Jayda Fransen may be born here, but she has an immigrant background as do the people she regularly persecutes who may be born here but are of immigrant stock. She picks on people for their colour, their foreign heritage, their religious clothing and all of those people could well be born in this country, but still keep up their own culture. She & her odious partner cause nothing but trouble wherever they go. They are no asset to the UK in any way. Therefore, perhaps you could try and come to terms with the hypocrisy of a woman whose grandfather came to this country to make a new life, as do those she persecutes, and then she expects to carry on regardless with her awful brand of racism.

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        • In every Britain first rally every single Muslim is demonised and told to go back home to their country, when in actual fact around 60% of today’s 3 million Muslims are British born. Whether she’s a migrant or not we know for sure she is a massive hypocrite.

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        • She wouldn’t have been born in this country if her ancestors had not immigrated here. That’s the point, shes arguing that we’re too lax with immigration, when she would not be British, and able to be such a bigot to current and future immigrants, if it weren’t for her emigrating ancestors! Her hypocrisy would be funny if it wasn’t inciting hatred of others based on where they were born.

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    • Do people actually read things properly, for pete’s sake? I have posted here not once but several times the fact that Jayda Fransen is NOT an immigrant! She was born in the registration district of Lambeth, South London, in the second quarter (April-June) of 1986. This information comes from the major genealogical website, Findmypast, and is extracted from the birth records of the General Register Office for England and Wales, which are online in a number of places. Here are the details…..

      First name(s) JADE KALEIGH
      Last name FRANSEN
      Birth year 1986
      Birth quarter 2
      Registration month 4
      Mother’s last name FILKINS
      District LAMBETH
      County London
      Country England
      Volume 14
      Page 677
      Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
      Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
      Subcategory Births & baptisms
      Collections from Great Britain

      The forename is spelt slightly differently but it is undoubtedly her. I am a professional genealogist of over 40 years’ experience in family history and I KNOW my research is accurate. I can also tell you that her parents were both born and married in London also and she has an older sister also born at Lambeth. Her parents Raymond Fransen and Kim Filkins were married at Camberwell registration district in 1983. She is NOT an immigrant from Holland! She had one paternal grandfather who was born in Holland, which makes her immigrant background only 25 per cent. Please get your facts right!

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  3. I’d be interested to see the membership figures of both Britain First and your outfit! I suspect they are both extremely tiny in proportion to the total UK population. People like Jayda Fransen, BF and you need each other in order to work out the anger, resentment, frustration and general psychological problems inside you because you each probably have nothing better to do, while the vast majority of people simply get on with their lives without bothering about such nonsense. BF and your organisation are mirror images and two opposing sides of the same problem!

    I would add that the number of so-called “hate crimes” is relatively tiny also pro rata in relation to the population. I’ve long thought that the very concept of hate crimes is a misnomer induced by unnecessary political correctness because there were already plenty of laws in place to deal with situations long before so-called hate crimes came in. Sadly, you lefties cannot see that you are just as obsessive as those you oppose on the right, which is why I say you need one another. Think about it!

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    • And do you need EBF to work out your anger, resentment, frustration and general psychological problems because you have nothing better to do, as well? How is one group who incites hatred and condones bigotry similar to a group that exposes said hatred and bigotry?

      Oh, it’s just a small number of hate crimes, so that’s alright then, is it? We should just tolerate it because you say it’s unnecessary political correctness. Tell that to the butcher who had a petrol bomb thrown through his shop window; tell that to the Polish people who had notes posted outside their doors calling them “vermins”; tell that to the parents of a child who was told to go back home to Romania in her school; tell that to all these people that have been documented so far – https://www.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/media_set?set=a.10101369198638985&type=3&pnref=story

      Go on: tell them that the crimes and bigotry carried out on them is just unnecessary political correctness and are “so called” crimes. Would you still call it a misnomer if I threw a petrol bomb into your house? You might want to think about things as well.

      Whether you want to believe it or not, these are the sorts of actions condoned and advocated by BF as has been extensively documented on this site that you rubbish off as obsessive “lefties” – oh you’ve shown your true colours there with that remark.

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    • We have no ‘membership’ as such because we’re a social media awareness raising group and not a political party like BF. So the closest we can get to members is Facebook likes – currently standing at a little over 90,000 likes.

      Britain First doesn’t publish its membership. They have about 1.5 million Facebook likes but most of these are the product of FB merges which counts people multiple times and bought likes. In their recent begging Email they claima circulation list of 130,000 ‘patriots’ so this probably reflects the true number of real people who signed up for Emails.We have no comparable figure as we don’t run a mailing list. Judging by Britain first’s ‘on street’ following at demonstrations they seem to number only between 100 and 200 actual activists (usually no more than a couple of dozen attend at any one time). However their social media reach and the damage their divisive ideas do within British culture is far more significant than their actual paid up membership.

      Hate crime has risen 600% in the last few weeks. We’ve seen assaults, abuse, vandalism and at least one fire-bombing. We also saw the murder of an MP by an alleged BF supporter. To say we’re the same is patently stupid.

      Your description of us as ‘lefties’ also betrays your real motive in hassling us here. Despite your pedantic protestations to the contrary your right wing colours are beginning to show.

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    • Well, shit. I better unfriend my muslims friends because Roy has tarred all muslims with the same brush as those extremists. Obviously, those evil cunts represent everybody who shares the same faith. The world is black and white. Thank fuck Roy is here to tell us who is peaceful and who is violent.

      Honestly, what do you think our “take” is on it? You think we oppose Bf therefore we condone murder? You think because we condemn Jayda Fransen who states her political opponents should be hanged, that we therefore think people should be stoned?

      Jimmy Saville was a paedo so therefore you’re a paedo, Roy.

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      • You are naive beyond belief if you really cannot see that the ultimate goal of Islam – even so-called moderate Muslims who pay lip service to the concept of opposing the extremists – is complete world domination and dragging the world back to the Dark Ages of the 7th century. Talking of paedophiles, you must be referring to their alleged, self styled prophet, a madman who invented a religion after a fictitious audience with God or Allah 1500-1600 years ago and wrote a work of fiction about it, in between screwing little girls of nine. ALL so-called holy books, including the bible, the koran and all others, are nothing more than the products of the human mind, as are all religions! Tragically, they are still believed in the 21st century despite being written many, many centuries ago when the world was an utterly different place, by millions of gullible people who have been brainwashed from birth and have neither the intelligence nor the ability to assimilate education to question and challenge it. Were there no religions, millions of lives could have been spared and the human race would be far more advanced than it is today. The only Muslims I can respect are those who realised what a load of backward, barbaric, uncivilised nonsense Islam is and left it – and they go in fear of their lives because of the lunatics who want to kill them. If you cannot see that even moderate Muslims want to force their poisonous culture onto us – and Islam is a fascist-orientated political ideology rather than a religion – and take over the whole of Europe and ultimately the world, then you are a typically naive lefty and bleeding heart liberal who speaks from emotions and the heart and not a logical mind. Atheists and humanists are the only true thinkers because we see all religious rubbish as the dangerous nonsense and mumbo jumbo that it really is.

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        • Haha, you think yourself a humanist?! True humanists respect people regardless of their faith which clearly you don’t. Also going by your posts, you clearly lack any compassion and empathy and call those whom you disagree with as “lefties” and “bleeding heart liberals”. Funny, there isn’t much difference between humanism and liberalism, yet you think yourself a humanist. Hahahaha!

          But enough talk of ideals. I jest, mate. I’m sure you’re really a good, kind-hearted man who just stumbled onto this blog, saw that poor Jayda Fransen was getting some slack so wanted to be her just and honourable white knight. I feel ya, man. You are a compassionate person after all. Id take back what I typed in the previous paragraph, but there’s no delete key. so just ignore it, Roy. I like you.

          You know what, Roy? Your paranoia makes sense. The muslim friends I mentioned in my previous post this morning starting throwing stones at me as I walked out of my home. Pinky (one of the guy’s nickname for his affection towards the colour pink) then asked Brain (a nickname for my other muslim friend because he’s usually intelligent) what they should do next, and Brain replied, “What billions of us should have done a long time ago, Pinky – try and take over the world!” They both started laughing maniacally and proceeded to throw more stones at me as I ran off, being the cowardly lefty that I am. Fuck them. You’ll be glad to know that I have removed them as a friend from Facebook.

          Thankfully, Roy, I’m still alive and could post this from friends house. What do you propose we do to stop this takeover? I’m thinking we strategically lay rashers of bacon along the coasts and around border control as it’ll deter any more muslims from coming into ARE COUNTRY!!!111 Paul Golding and his legion of benevolent troops have proven this works.

          As for the muslims who are already here, perhaps we can lure them into, I dunno, some huge chamber with promises of young virgins. What do you think? I think you you’re a principled man who’ll have a great solution to the muslim problem. There are 1.6 billion of them so we have to act quickly, Roy! You don’t look like you have much time left. I don’t want your benevolence to do die with you. Please, educate me oh wise man, Roy!

          Perhaps we can enlist the help of the hundreds and thousaaaands troops from Britain First. i saw that they had some professional combat training not so long ago, so they could perhaps be our best weapon for the upcoming fight to prevent world domination by Pinky and Brain and their billions of fellow muslims. We can do it, Roy. By the grace of queen and country, by jolly we can do it.

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    • In the words of Roger Waters (Amused to death)… “You don’t have to be a Jew to disapprove of murder”.
      Equally we don’t need to be Muslim or even friends of Muslims to disagree with neoNazism.
      You’ll need to try harder to categorize us, Roy. Your far-right, black-and-white thinking is beginning to show.

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      • I hope you will still feel the same when Islam has taken over the UK and you are forced to wear that hideous,ugly foul garment of a black bin liner called the nqab, showing only your eyes, because believe you me, it will happen unless our cowardly politicians do something about the incursion. Why are you lefties and liberals so naive about Islam? I would have thought it was a culture that is against everything you people believe, oppressive of women and gays, a belief in administering barbaric punishments for minor offences, and opposed to secularism and democracy, and yet you cosy up to Islam, appease it, apologise for it and make excuses for the worst atrocities. I don’t understand you at all. What other religion makes so many absurd and ridiculous demands, refusing to accept our way of life and demanding that we incorporate Islam? Do Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus do it? NO! It is only Muslims who constantly find offence in just about everything in our way of life! If they hate us so much why are they here? If they want shariah law why don’t they bugger off to a country that has it? But you people are obsessive in your protection of them. I do not support BF in their attacks on individual Muslims but I confess to being very frightened indeed of what is happening in the world and realised it is only a matter of time before they bring it here – in fact, of course, they already did with the London bombings. And yet I expect you excused those as isolated incidents.

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        • Ignore the question in my previous reply to you, you have just confirmed to me what sort of person you are.
          I suppose you’re just going to ignore the majority who have integrated well; those who are British citizens by birth?

          “but I confess to being very frightened indeed of what is happening in the world and realised it is only a matter of time before they bring it here – in fact, of course, they already did with the London bombings.” So you admit to being an islamophobe then?

          Of course, I should expect that you’d use some illogical fallacy when you state we would excuse any murder committed in the name of Islam because we condemn you and BF. Isn’t wisdom supposed to come with age? You come across as a typical, paranoid, buffooned biffer.

          I best inform my muslim friends that aren’t integrating well enough because you say so. Obviously you’re a spokesperson on behalf of every single muslim in existence so we all should heed your post.

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  4. I think you mean Pinky and Perky, don’t you?

    The first thing I would do to combat the insidious march of Islam is to make all shariah courts illegal and close them down. There is room for only one law in this country and that is the official legal law of the land. There is absolutely no room or place for an alternative legal system running counter to secular law and driven by a backward religious cult and bearded imams straight out of an Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves pantomime, especially since shariah law is offensive and unjust towards women.

    Secondly, I would emulate the French and Swiss and ban the burka and nqab from public places as a severe security risk, since there is no way of knowing who or what is inside them. Male Muslim criminals have escaped the country and justice by posing as Muslim women.

    I would make the Border Agency fit for purpose (which it wasn’t under Theresa May as Home Secretary), bringing in rules that ensure only would-be immigrants without criminal records and with either an approved sponsor and a UK citizen already resident in this country, or a guaranteed job and residence to go to. All others would be put on the next plane back to where they came from!

    Finally, I would close down ALL faith-based schools, including Catholic, Anglican and Jewish schools as well as Muslim, and make all education secular, removing religious instruction from the schools curricula altogether. Religion of any kind has no place in schools. It should be kept at home, or in the mosque, church, chapel, synagogue or wherever. Children get more than enough brainwashing from their parents without it being additionally in schools.

    That would be a start.

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    • Well, that joke went over your head. Unsurprising really, given your age (assuming that’s you in the picture?). Look up Pinky and The Brain. I thought it was apt given your paranoia of muslims taking over the world.

      Ah, so you genuinely believe that Sharia courts in the UK go against the laws of the UK? Come one, Roy, this has been widely debunked countless times. keep up. For your reading pleasure – https://fullfact.org/law/uks-sharia-courts/

      Care to provide evidence of male criminals escaping countries and justice by wearing a burka? You make it seem that this is common, yet I have only seen a couple of articles on isolated incidences. Why stop there? Tights are commonly worn as a disguise to commit acts of crime, so ban tights! What about hoodies? Ban ’em! Fuck it, ban all clothes! I know, to really ensure that no crime ever gets committed, let’s ban going outside! No wait, crimes can be committed indoors, so let’s ban humans!

      Ah, little englander. I do actually, somewhat, agree with your last paragraph. Children should be free from religious indoctrination, not just by schools, but from parents too. However, it’s their choice. Simply closing down such schools would cause a massive uproar.

      When you first started posting, I thought you put out articulate, unbiased and well thought out opinions, but your recent posts have shown you to actually be very biased. Be honest: you’re a biffer, aren’t you? You seem to be spouting the same rhetoric as Golding, Fransen and their followers, and it would explain your rigorous defense of the deputy leader. You no longer seem to be a professional genealogist just weighing in on Jayda’s ancestry because of your interest.

      You remind me of another old geezer we had on here last year. You’re not an “expert” on Islam by any chance, are you?

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      • This is a secular country, full stop. Shariah law is alien to Britain, as are most absurdly zealous Muslim beliefs, and cannot be permitted to run either alongside or in opposition to the law of the land, or in any other context, especially as it very clearly treats women as second class citizens subservient at all times to men. As presumably a lefty, I find it astonishing that you accept this gross inequality and the mysogyny of Islam. Do you also support all the other shit that Muslims believe, like Muslim men going to Paradise and being waited on by 72 vestal virgins, and non-believers burning in the fires of hell for all eternity? Tell me, where does Allah get all the virgins from, does he have a factory churning them out? 🙂

        If Muslims are so offended by our beliefs – and I don’t accept your claim that the majority have integrated, what they are actually trying to do is force their backward ideology onto us – why do they stay here? If they want to live under shariah law there are plenty of Muslim countries that have it.

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        • Would you ban all other forms of arbitration too, Roy. Remember that there are no legally enforceable Sharia ‘Courts’ – only civil agreements that mirror civil agreements made in any other arbitration context. By the way this isn’t a secular country. We have Bishops in the upper house and a state religion. A daily act of worship is also a legal requirement in British schools.

          There may be good reasons for wishing Britain was secular but that doesn’t make it so.

          Anyway, back to my question… would you ban all forms of arbitration or just those favoursd by Muslims? If so – how do we manage and pay for the increase in litigation?

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          • I would certainly remove the bishops from the House of Lords and I am in favour of the disestablishment of the Church of England from the state. I would also do away with prayers in schools and, as I said in an earlier, post I would remove religious instruction from all schools curricula, even if closing down all faith schools is a stage too far!

            As for other forms of arbitration outside the courts of law, I would certainly ban any form of arbitration or courts based on religious law, whether it be CofE, Muslim, Jewish or any other religion. All laws should be secular and not based on any assumption that there is a God, Allah or any other non-existent deity. This is an area in which I diverge utterly from BF, whose leaders appear to be Christian nutters – just as reprehensible as Muslim ones!

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            • Y’know, Roy, I actually agree with you on your points about secularism. Although i think should children should learn about religion as, whether we like it or not, it has played a huge part in humanity and history, but they shouldn’t be indoctrinated into a religion at such an age that they are impressionable and susceptible.

              “This is an area in which I diverge utterly from BF, whose leaders appear to be Christian nutters – just as reprehensible as Muslim ones!” – yet you questioned why this blog exists and opposes BF, despite you doing exactly the same thing but you instead target muslims?! You seem to be inconsistent. Remember the time when you were simply a harmless genealogist who didn’t care for politics? Now you are going ban-crazy! :/

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            • Arbitration isn’t law though, is it, Roy? It’s a structured process by which people reach agreements. Every form of arbitration has to be based upon some agreed ethical or moral framework if it is to succeed. To say that all forms of religious arbitration should be banned misses the piint of ethical frameworks. No human ethical system can be demonstrated empirically – all are fantasies that people choose to adhere to or not. Secular ethics have no more empirical basis than religious ones so your objection is clearly both invalid and partisan. I recommend you read ‘The righteous mind’ by Jonathan Haidt to get a sense of how arbitrary human ethical and legal codes are.

              But back to my earlier question… how do you propose we manage and func the increase in litigation once we ban such a massive cultural artefact as religiously based arbitration?

              Are you really sure you’ve thought the practicalities of your arbitrary, partisan and essentially nonsensical stance through?

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              • I don’t think Roy thinks any of his opinions through. They’re certainly not substantiated by any facts, rather, by his own prejudices. Unsurprising given that he only chooses to converse with his “own kind”. That’s all one needs to know about him and his thought process or lack of.

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                • Has he gone? Must be unusual to have people answer back. In his day at the News of the world there was no easy reply on line. Nobody to challenge his dubious ‘facts’. Welcome to the 21st century, Roy. These days we see right through half-truths and misrepresentations like yours!

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                  • He has left us with a parting comment. Apparently, he is in demand from his famous friends and now, conveniently, has no time to reply to “nonsense” (I assume he’s referring to his unfactual, paranoid ramblings).

                    I dread to think what he reported on and what his articles consisted of. If his posts on here are anything to go by, he too is dangerous and potentially manipulative. Fear spreads as easy as a virus. Yes, thankfully, we are more equipped to deal with scaremongering perpetrated by malicious individuals like Roy.

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        • Have you gone senile? Did you miss the link I posted that debunks your view that sharia courts work against the UK law?

          As an egalitarian and an actual humanist, of course I don’t accept any inequality and misogynism. Why do you think I do? Because unlike you, I judge people individually rather than group label people? As I have tirelessly mentioned a few times now (although it seems to have gone over your head so), I have muslim friends and they are nothing like the evil, oppressive people you make them out to be because of your generalisations. That’s not to say such people exist and are muslim, but, unfortunately, gross inequality and misogynism exists all across the globe and is hardly exclusive to islam now, is it? I’d argue it’s a cultural and societal problem in general rather than just a religious one as you seem to be inferring. For all I know, you’re a misogynistic pig, but I’m not going to assume so just by judging your appearance and views. That’s the difference between me and you.

          Are you under the impression that I’m religious? Your question regarding Allah is redundant given that I am an atheist. Shock horror, i know. I’m somebody who can befriend people regardless of their (wacky) beliefs, but I can live and let live; still treat them like human beings; treat them with respect and not discriminate. Y’know, like an actual humanist.

          You don’t accept it because it goes against your bias. I don’t know, Roy, try talking to a muslim. I’m yet to meet one who is offended by my existence (being a UK citizen and all). There are those handful of exceptions, of course, that BF like to focus on and continuously highlight as if they represent every single muslim living in the UK because they seek confirmation bias.

          There’s one muslim I can think off of the top of my head who has integrated so well he is now the mayor the London: Sadiq Khan. What’s this?! A muslim who is an advocate of equality?! Treats women with respect?! I never! Oh, but hang on a sec, you said, i quote, “I don’t accept your claim that the majority have integrated, what they are actually trying to do is force their backward ideology onto us.” and as you are clearly the wisest man on Earth, you are absolutely right. Sadiq is probably using taqiyya (typical BF response) as means to trick us all. Muslims are damned if they do integrate and damned if they don’t.

          You can’t teach an old dog new tricks, they say, so I’m not holding my breath you’ll stop tarring all muslims with the same brush as the handful of extremists.

          Oh, I’m still waiting for the plethora of evidence of male criminals using the burqa to escape countries and what not. You strangely went quiet there. Is it because you’ve exaggerated? Surely a former journalist for The News of The World (hahahahahahahaha) wouldn’t spout bullshit now, would he? Did you get such information from the echo chamber that is Britain First Facebook page, perchance? Coincidently, they forego evidence and integrity when spouting anti-muslim rhetoric too.

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          • Your unpleasant little sneer about my career at the News of the World is pathetic since I retired 20 years ago, long before the phone hacking occurred, and when I worked for it it was a totally different paper for most of my career, an old-fashioned broadsheet with a beautiful scroll-type masthead and its principal market was covering court cases, which earned it the largest circulation in newspaper history, 8 million at one time.

            Why should I go out of my way to seek out Muslims? I don’t think they and I would have the remotest thing in common. I choose to select my friends, neighbours and associates from among my own kind, i.e. middle class people who share common interests, one of which is genealogical research. Is that not also a basic human right?

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            • It was hardly the bastion of great journalistic integrity now, was it? What Murdoch owned media is? No doubt they employed you because of your bigotry, hence my chuckle. The Sun also seems to employ journalists of your ilk and they too post similar crap to your posts on here. No wonder there’s an anti-immigration and anti-muslim sentiment in the UK. Like you and BF, they too forego evidence, integrity and factual information and, instead, opt for sensational stories to whip up hatred, then, decry it.

              Because you have questions about them? If you want answers to questions about their faith, then why not get them from the horse’s mouth? Are you afraid that they’ll prove you wrong? Are you afraid they just might be really friendly and hospitable chaps? Are you just simply afraid of anybody who isn’t “your own kind”?

              But isn’t the human race your own kind, Roy? Or are you some superior kind? You know what else is a basic human right? The freedom to practice religious faith, yet you would prevent that if given the power to do so. One rule for you and another for anybody else that isn’t a middle class genealogist. Thank fuck the world doesn’t revolve around your myopic self.

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              • Islam is NOT a religious faith. It is a fascist political ideology whose ultimate aim is nothing less than world domination and the reverting of the entire world to the 7th century and the Dark Ages. The extremists of this poisonous, malignant cancer are a death cult who look forward to dying and taking as many people as possible with them because they are mad, barbaric savages whose minds are sick and perverted. Quoted surveys and statistics reveal that many British Muslims support the aims of ISIS because they hate us an our western way of life.

                I hope they don’t get to you people first because your excuses and appeasement will not help you! They see democratic tolerance and proffered friendship as a weakness. But you are too naive and filled with bleeding heart liberal political correctness and stupidity to see this, as are our politicians.

                BTW, I travelled widely as a Fleet Street journalist, reporter and writer, reported from many countries, met more famous people than you’ve had hot dinners, had millions of words published, spent a great deal of Rupert’s money (which gave me no end of satisfaction!) and my wife and I and our two sons own between us five properties in Hertfordshire and Dorset worth around a total of £2.5 million, so I didn’t do too badly in my former career.

                I also have internet blogs, one of which is devoted to the genealogies and ancestries of the famous. I have recently had some good publicity for my blog on the family tree of Theresa May. So I don’t really need to spend time indulging in nonsensical arguments with naive lefties. Byeeeee!

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                • I’d have figured an educated and well travelled man such as yourself would know what a religion is. Haha, so you really are delusional. I would put it down to old age, but, worryingly, you’re not alone in your paranoid rambling as numerous far-right groups spout the same nonsense too, yet, ironically, call anybody who’s a “leftie” a looney. perplexing to say the least!

                  Tell me, Roy, was this the same survey carried out by The Sun who had to later retract and issue an apology for misleading its gullible readers? – http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/ipso-sun-british-muslims-story-headline-significantly-misleading-a6953771.html

                  See that link, Roy? Evidence. Still waiting for yours about the burqa. Glad to see that experience and wealth you accumulated has paid off and you’re not just another shoddy reporter that posts unfactual information. Oh wait.

                  Brag, brag, brag. Those who feel the need to brag online to indifferent strangers are likely to be liars trying to compensate for something. What’s your case, Roy? You’re obviously bitter and full of hatred, but at least you’ve got materialistic possessions and have met deified celebrities, yet you ostensibly care about equality. You’re full of shit, aren’t you, Roy? The only thing I’m worried about is the fact that you have bred. Bigotry tends to breed bigots. I can only hope that they aren’t a deplorable cunt like you.

                  Yet, you’ve spent a considerable amount of time replying to these “nonsensical arguments” (surely true on your part). Well, your posts have lacked anything substantial anyway. It’s clear to me that you’re a malleable person who lacks any insight and intuitive to research much like your former readership I suppose. This is the day of the internet now, though; the age of information, and people can see through your bullshit and past the propaganda and biased that the media is rife with.

                  If you can resist the temptation to reply, then good riddance. And while you’re online, look up the definition of religion, humanist and equality. Christ, I’m sure a child is more knowledgeable than you on what constitutes as a religion.

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                • Bye then, Roy. It must be hard when your audience has the ability to challenge your misrepresentations. Just for the record – I think integrity and honesty are far more important and indicative of character than wealth and property. Reflected glory from meeting famous people is fairly superficial too in my opinion. I’m sure that as a former journalist you’ll understand just how you misrepresented the research you quoted. ‘Have sympathy with’ individuals does not equal ‘support ISIS’ as I’m certain you know. Save your venomous tabloid deception for the Biffers, they’re generally uneducated enough to believe you.

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            • By the way: why do you keep avoiding some of my questions and points? Like about Sadiq Khan integrating, for example? Or about misogynism not being an exclusive issue to Islam? What about the evidence for the many crimes committed by males wearing burqas? You just seem to be selective about what you want to address.

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        • Tell me Roy, have you read the Bible recently? Shockingly misogynistic book – and there are quite a few people in this country who think it should form the basis of our legal system. I see you haven’t mentioned it in your rants, so I’ll just leave it here for you to consider. I also note that you haven’t condemned the Beth Din, which unlike Sharia Courts, is in daily use in the UK. Maybe you just forgot in the hurry to point out your credentials as a genealogist.

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    • How dare you think you can decide that faith schools should be closed down. I went to a Catholic faith school and that is where I learned the essence of humanity towards others, kindness to my fellow human beings and charity to all. I would not have it any other way. You go about your business, live and let live and if people want to use a faith school it is their decision entirely and absolutely nothing to do with you. Everything you’ve written is what’s wrong with this country at the moment. You spew hatred and venom without thinking for a moment of the repercussions to families and young children. I respect the Muslim faith and I respect all faiths. You have to remember that there are extremists in all brands of religions. Look up what the Irish did to the UK, there’s a whole Wikipedia page devoted to the carnage they wreaked on our mainland, and yet we have managed to treat the Irish people resident in this country with compassion and not held them responsible for the actions of Irish extremists. You seem incapable of thinking deeply, you just skim the right wing media then spout it like a puppet. From the attached Wikipedia page you will clearly see that the Irish have done far worse to us than a Muslim has ever done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

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  5. Have you not heard that Sadiq Khan has already begun imposing his sanctimonious, puritanical brand of Islam by issuing a ridiculous ban on an advert on London Transport buses and tube stations because it dared to show a few under-dressed ladies? This is what Islam truly is – a vicious and mad ideology aimed at taking all the humour and enjoyment out of life in a manner that Oliver Cromwell would have been proud of! Why do Muslims seem to be offended by just about everything in our society and things we believe in? Why do they remain in Britain if we and our way of life are so hateful to them? And does saying that misogyny is not restricted just to Islam make it any better or something to be proud of. As for Muslim men committing crimes by posing as a woman in a burkha, I suggest you do some research yourself with Google instead of demanding that I do it.

    Your naivety continues to astonish me! If you really cannot see that Islam is a malignant cancer with roots deep in the 7th century, a neo-fascist political ideology (not a religion) aimed at world domination, then you must be even more stupid and blind than I thought. I expect you will wake up one of these days and finally see the truth of how you naive lefties and bleeding heart liberals are being conned, but only when it’s too late and the whole of the Western world has been subjugated by the barbarians at the gates, just as the Roman Empire was.

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    • You need to check your facts better. The decisiin was in relation to ‘beach ready body’ adverts and was about encouraging eating disorders. It had nothing to do with Islam or morality. Come on Roy – surely they taught you how to check facts at journo school.

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      • Who knows what they taught him or how he even qualified? Standards might have been pretty low back then. He lacks reading comprehension, is guilty of committing fallacies and is unable to provide any citation for his claims – only giving us his misconceptions, conjectures and downright paranoid delusions.

        I suppose being insular and hanging out one’s “own kind” makes one ignorant. Wisdom didn’t come with his aging, apparently. What a lost cause.

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          • You people are astonishing in your ignorance. I have never been on the Daily Mail staff in my entire career. I have very occasionally helped them out with genealogical stories and enquiries as a freelance, which I became for a while when I retired from a full-time Fleet Street job. Freelance journalists work for anybody who is willing to pay them or is this concept beyond your sanctimonious, self righteous posturing?

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              • Yet again you demonstrate your ignorance, but I expect you’re young and don’t know any better. When I joined the News of the World in 1967 it was a totally different paper to the one that it became when it went tabloid and was ultimately closed down. When I joined the paper it was a broadsheet (if you know what that is) with a lovely old-fashioned scroll-type headline and a totally different layout. It’s principal diet was court cases but many prominent people wrote for it, among them Winston Churchill regularly and Archbishops of Canterbury. It had the largest circulation of any newspaper in the world – over 6 million when I joined and at one time in the 1950s the circulation was 8 million because it was known as a newspaper for the forces and many servicemen read it abroad while their families bought it also at home. It was widely praised for the quality of its sports reporting and employed many top sportsmen in their fields to write for it – the golfer Henry Cotton, footballers Jackie Milburn and Tom Finney, table tennis star Johnny Leach and cricketer Richie Benaud among them. Of course, you ignorant lefties are much too young to remember this. Personally, I never took to the paper as a red-top tabloid when it became obsessed, like other tabloids, with writing about showbiz luvvies – though as the serialisations editor for 10 years I bought the memoirs of many stars, spending a good deal of Rupert Murdoch’s money which gave me no end of satisfaction. Eventually I took early retirement in my late 50s because I’d had enough and wanted to do other things. I left in 1997, several years before the phone hacking nonsense broke out.

                The trouble with you lefties is that you hate success, cannot abide it, thus you hate the tabloid press! But tell me, what are the respective circulations of the Sun and the Mail and what is the piddling circulation of the Guardian, the house bible for social workers, teachers and the BBC? I won’t bother telling you, as you can easily look it up with Google – if, that is, you know how!

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        • Actually, my dear, I began my career in 1956 straight from grammar school when I signed on as an indentured junior reporter for the Halifax Courier, an evening newspaper in Yorkshire. I served an apprenticeship there, learning my trade the old-fashioned way covering everything from church fetes and flower shows to murder trials, and then moved on to several other provincial newspapers before arriving in Fleet Street eventually in the 1960s where I worked initially on a long-forgotten socialist newspaper owned by the Co-operative Party called the Sunday Citizen. That closed because nobody bought it and I subsequently worked for News International newspapers for 30 years, travelling the world as a reporter and writer, meeting and interviewing more famous people than you’ve had hot dinners, becoming a features executive and running a whole department, commissioning stories and articles with people answering to me, ending my career with 10 years as a serialisations editor and spending vast amounts of Rupert Murdoch’s money to serialise books in newspapers and magazines. which gave me no amount of satisfaction. In more than 40 years in newspapers I travelled widely, met many famous and infamous people, had several millions of words published. When I retired I adopted a new career as a professional genealogist and have written for many magazines and have two internet blogs, focusing on my one-name study and researching celebrity genealogists. You can find these on the internet if you know how to search with Google. I am also a millionaire property owner with houses in Hertfordshire and Dorset.

          AND WHAT, PRECISELY, HAVE YOU DONE, MAY ONE ASK?

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          • Ah righto, Roy. So you met some people (that doesn’t make you special, you know). You worked for a cynical sleazy rag (that makes you a scumbag) and then you exploited people who can’t afford to buy their own homes because property developers like you keep them out of the housing market (that makes you a scumbag too). And you think that having made your money from exploiting other people you deserve some sort of respect? Fuck off!

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            • What charming and delightful people you are! I do so admire the eloquence and lucidity of your command of the English language. Your foul and disgusting language merely shows you up for the ignorant yob and pile of dog excrement that you patently are.

              I am not and never have been a property developer! I bought a house in Hertfordshire almost 50 years ago via the usual method, i.e. mortgage, brought our children up and have seen the house soar in value, like everybody’s else’s, because of the rise in the property market over the decades. We have another home in Dorset which we acquired when my late mother-in-law died aged 103 and left it to us and we have spent a very considerable sum in extending it. All perfectly legally but not at the expense of anyone else.

              You crackpot lefties really are thoroughly nasty pieces of work, consumed and eaten up by envy and hatred of anyone who has something that you haven’t. I wonder what Marcia who runs this blog thinks of some of the appalling language of some of her supporters? Nor do I have to apologise for anything I have ever done in my career. Frankly, I’ve had a great life, travelling the world, meeting all kinds of people from the rich and famous and the good to the bad and the ugly, indulging in my love of writing, having several million words published AND getting paid buckets of money! You see, media people are like showbiz folks, we get paid handsomely for doing a job we love and would virtually do for nothing. That I imagine is why you are so eaten up with envy and feel the need to espouse your anger – probably because you’re not much good at anything!

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              • Actually Roy nobody runs this blog alone but if anyone did it would most likely be me. I started the blog and apart from some months away for family issues have been the main contributor. So to answer your query I’ll say that whilst I have a rather different style of writing from Fluffy I don’t disagree with his sentiment. I’ve looked over your past comments and it’s clear that you’d dismiss/condemn my brown, Muslim husband and our mixed race children out of hand. And you have the audacity to insult our attitudes! You may be wealthy and you may have been successful in Fleet street but you’re still very obviously a mean-spirited and small-minded buffoon. Perhaps those particular words are more in keeping with your delicate sensibilities.

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    • Oh, I thought you were leaving this “nonsensical argument” for the second time? Glad you’re back, fishy.

      You mean that he opposes body shaming and felt that the “beach body” adverts didn’t help? So? Plenty of women agreed with him. I have no opinion either way to be honest, but it seems a noble decision to make even if you disagree with it. What has it to do with his religion? Did he bring it up? Or is this another one of your paranoid speculations? He did bring up that he has two daughters so that probably has something to do with it. You don’t care for integrity though, do you?

      Again, get of your arse and actually speak to a muslim. in fact, thanks to the internet, you don’t even need to get off your arse. I’m not a muslim, so if you believe you qualify to make assumptions on how all muslims feel, then direct your speculations towards a muslim. I know they’re not your “own kind”, but if you’re that curious, then go straight to a horse’s mouth. No, of course it doesn’t make misogyny any better? Where’d you get your unfounded statements from? I was simply pointing out that misogyny is a societal problem, not one that’s just exclusive to islam. basically, Roy, people are the problem. How the fuck is it hard for you to grasp that?

      Have you ever heard of “burden of proof”? No, of course you haven’t. You were a journalist for The News of The World after all. You assert a claim, you back it up, mate. But for the record, I actually did yesterday and only an article from The Daily Mail shows up about a jewellry shop thief. Methinks you were being hyperbolic in order to justify your stance on banning burqas. Funny, you just criticised Sadiq for wanting to ban an advert that potentially body shames women and here you are wanting to oppress women by stating they shouldn’t wear a certain attire.

      And your paranoia continues to astonish me!

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    • Dear God, Roy. Is this obsessive trawling of tabloids to find whatever dirt you can really the way to present yourself as anything even approaching ‘balanced’? You’re starting to appear distinctly unhinged now.

      My advice would be to adopt a new strategy… make a cup of tea, sit down in a quiet room and think about fair representation until you see the error of one-sided evidence mining. It may help if you think about how much positive stuff about ordinary Muslims you had to trawl through to find your cherry-picked articles.

      Once you’ve done that try googling terms like “Muslim charity” and “Muslims against ISIS” to help you regain a sense of proportion. Maybe by then you’ll be a little less rabid in your hostility toward 5% of your fellow British citizens.

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      • I will be less hostile to Muslims when they stop trying to convert us to their backward religion and political ideology, holding up banners at demos demanding shariah law, and when we close down those mosques preaching extremism and deport hate preachers like Anjem Choudary and other hate preachers poncing off our benefits.

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        • When was the last time a Muslim tried to convert you (or anyone you know), Roy? I’ve never had a Muslim try to convert me. Various denominations of Christian do so with monotonous regularity though.

          Most of your criteria are already fulfilled with the exception of a handful of fanatics. As to your remaining criteria re Mosques and deportations – those are not actions you demand of Muslims but of the British government. It’s hardly appropriate to hold British Muslims accountable for the fact that the largely non-Muslim British government disagrees with your extremist views.

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        • Oh, so now you’re acknowledging they are a religion? It’s just the other day you said it wasn’t. Being inconsistent again, Roy? Short term memory loss, perhaps? What muslims is trying to convert you? You also said that you wouldn’t ever speak to anybody who isn’t your own kind.

          You’re committing the same guilt by association fallacy again…ah forget it. You’re a lost cause. You’ve had, what? 70/80 years of being brainwashed and being scaremongered despite being employed in the same industry that perpetuates the fear mongering.

          To diverge away from your tirade against a whole group of peoples, I’d like to once again bring up your self-proclamation of being a humanist (absolutely laughable) seeing as you avoided that the last time I questioned it: you’re conceded hostility towards muslims goes against the principles of actual humanists, did you know? Are you a part of the British Humanist Association? In any case, I’d like to bring to your attention on of their aims:

          “The UK is a secular state guaranteeing human rights, with no privilege or discrimination on grounds of religion or belief.

          We will work to enhance the public understanding and appreciation of secularism as the best strategy for achieving freedom, equality, and peace in a plural society. We will identify and publicise key instances where people are unfairly privileged or discriminated against because of their religion or belief or where principles of human rights or equality are compromised. We will engage in effective advocacy to influence public opinion, government policy, legislation, and case law in order to resolve these situations.”

          https://humanism.org.uk/about/our-aims/

          Thier campaign on equality on human rights state: “As humanists, we support the right of every person to be treated with dignity and respect, and to be allowed to speak, and believe, as they wish.”

          How does that sit well with your attitude towards people who aren’t “your own kind”, namely muslims? You’re persistent discrimination? Not only that, but you also lack any compassion and empathy as demonstrated by your disdain towards those who were affected by the recent hate crimes; you’ll recall callously shrugging them off as “so-called hate crimes” and “political correctness”. Go on: go and read back your previous posts and tell me you’re a humanist. You’re a disgrace. If you are a part of their membership, I’ll certainly contact them and refer them to this thread.

          You’ve mentioned you’re also an atheist. Something we unfortunately have in common. Of course, that’s where our similarities end. As an atheist, you’re a critical and skeptical thinker, right? Challenge anything that’s delusional to you, yes? Yet, here you are spouting absolute paranoid claims about world domination perpetrated by muslims with not one iota of substantial reasoning, facts nor evidence just pure conjecture on your part. When you go on a paranoid ramble like that, I think you’re just as delusional as those you call delusional.

          Well educated my arse. You may be qualified to research people’s ancestry, but you’re certainly not qualified or informed about the thoughts and opinions of every single 1.7 billion muslims and their faith. But well done, Roy, you are able to cherry pick atrocities carried out by a minority of muslims. Just a shame you aren’t able to discern extremism and Islam and constantly commit that logical fallacy I’ve pointed out numerous times now. Whoosh!

          By the way, when you say you are well traveled, do you mean you flew to 1st world countries by private jets or by 1st/business class? Did you stay in 5* swanky hotels and dine only in michelin starred restaurants? I only ask because I’m somewhat well travelled and know others who are well travelled and we all seem to be open minded, friendly and approachable to strangers; we have experienced different cultures and made many friends across the globe as a result. Yet you seem to be want seclusion and segregation? I suppose you think being cultured is sipping a glass of a £100 bottle of wine.

          Perhaps you should travel again. Converse with people out of your comfort zone. Might give you a new perspective, Roy. Probably too late now, as I say, isn’t it? You’re a lost cause after all.

          Whoooooooooosh!

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  6. The fact that 1.7 billion people may follow Islam doesn’t mean that it’s not a backward, dangerous, malignant cancer opposed to everything sensible people believe in, like Western-style democracy. Millions of people in the Middle Ages believed that everything in the universe revolved around the Earth until Galileo proved them wrong! Darwin showed that the idea that some fictitious being called God or Allah created the world was absurd. The vast majority of Muslims live in countries that are very backward. They are simple-minded, ignorant, poorly educated and have been brainwashed from birth over 1500 years and simply do not possess the intellect and mental faculties to challenge it. They are in effect brainwashed, brain-dead robots who believe all the Dark Ages excrement that their paedophile prophet invented.

    Instead of offering succour and support to ignoramuses, why don’t you do something really useful and offer support to those brave former Muslims who have had the courage and steely determination to reject Islam and probably put themselves in fear of their lives by their apostasy. I bet you don’t do that, though!

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    • You’re simple minded, ignorant and (going by your posts on here) poorly educated and have been brainwashed from birth by the very media you once worked for, and you simply do not have the intellect and mental faculties to challenge your own backward views or even address posts myself and Marcia have made previously (still waiting on your evidence regarding burqas, still waiting for evidence of ALL muslims wanting to dominate the world, still waiting to hear your thoughts on your self-proclamation of being a humanist, and I’m still waiting on numerous other things that I’ve forgotten about now because you spent time choosing selective articles to confirm your bias).

      See, Roy? You do have something in common with people who aren’t your “own kind” after all.

      “Instead of offering succour and support to ignoramuses, why don’t you do something really useful…” – Yeah you’re right, Roy. I’m not sure why I keep bothering replying to you, but it’s somewhat amusing reading your paranoid ramblings and sweeping statements.

      I would support anybody with a problem, Roy. I don’t discriminate. Would you?

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      • By the way, Roy, do you copy and paste your replies on numerous threads? I’m starting to notice a pattern here. If so, is it because you don’t want to address people directly as you’re scared of being refuted? It’s like the other day when I rebutted your nonsense about sharia law, you then went on another paranoid ramble.

        Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance? it would explain your erratic behaviour this past day or so.

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    • Actually we have apostates from Islam and Christianity on the team as well as atheists, agnostics and practicing members of these and other faiths

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  7. I really cannot waste any more of my precious working time when I’m supposed to be researching debating with people who are so astonishingly naive.

    You claim to be opposed to fascism, yet you really cannot see that Islam, and especially extremist Islam which so-called “moderate” Muslims claim to oppose but merely pay lip service to, is a virulent fascist political movement presenting arguably the greatest threat to the world since Adolf Hitler and his Nazis.

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    • Haha, you’ve been debating?! I wouldn’t call making assertions without using evidence to back them up and using logical fallacies debating. But we’re the naive ones. Thank fuck we’re not just taking your word for everything which, let’s face it, you would rather us do instead of refuting your ignorant nonsense. Sure, that’ll be the third time you’ve said that now, Roy.

      Some parting evidence (it’s something you avoid, so I’m not holding my breath you’ll bother reading any of it) of muslims opposing extremism for you:

      http://thefreethoughtproject.com/70000-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-condemning-terrorism/

      http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/british-muslims-are-literally-paying-to-condemn-isis-so-everyone-can-stop-going-on-about-it-now–b1V6zQTOKe

      http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/this-is-how-countries-with-large-muslim-populations-view-isis–Wk2dwvNdFe

      And there’s much more out there which I’m sure you’ll ignore because it doesn’t fit in with your perception of muslims.

      Good riddance for the third time, Roy.

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    • Odd that. We’ve provided facts and reasonable arguments to counter every spurious ‘point’ & allegation you’ve made, Roy and yet you call US naive! We even gave you links to our evidence-based PDFs demonstrating that Britain First are entirely Nazi-inspired and still you stick your fingers in your ears and deny the truth.

      Rather than silly face-saving bullshit about being too busy to engage us why not try debating like a grown-up instead. You’d be welcome!

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    • I have a question for you, Roy. You’re clearly an intelligent man – your command of English demonstrates that, let alone your career success. You must therefore understand the paucity of the ‘arguments’ you’ve used here. Presumably then you understand the transparency with which you have displayed your poor character and judgement here on this blog. So my question is this…

      Since you’ve gone to such lengths elsewhere on the internet to portray yourself as a reasonable person who’s capable of understanding the pitfalls of poor research, why have you been so carefree with your mask of assumed respectability here?

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      • I would refer you to the many websites on Facebook opposing Islam in this country, America, Australia and other countries who take precisely the same view as I do i.e. that Islam is not a religion but a politically motivated fascist ideology dedicated to total world domination from a 7th century perspective. Are many of your team Muslims by any chance?

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        • We have 2 practicing Muslims, I think out of about 35 on the team. Do you think it’s significant that these websites tend to be far right or even openly Nazi? Do you think it significant that the groups shouting the loudest about the Muslim threat also tend to bevthe ones who shouted about Jews or black people a few decades ago? Do you think it significant that many of the groups shouting about Muslims also scream about the ‘gay plague’ and demonic activity in politics? We do. We think they’re just vehicles of hate regardless of evidence or of the target.

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        • Anyway please answer my question. I’ll rephrase it to make it unambiguous for you…

          You cannot fail to see how poor your ‘arguments’ have been, Roy. Aren’t you embarrassed?

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        • “I would refer you to the many websites on Facebook opposing Islam…”

          Is the echo chamber that is Britain First one of them by any chance?

          …”who take precisely the same VIEW as I do i.e. that Islam is not a religion but a politically motivated fascist ideology dedicated to total world domination from a 7th century perspective.”

          Has it not ever occurred to you the it is just your view, not actually reality? Your arguments have indeed been extremely weak and insubstantial that is on the same par as BF – in fact eerily similar to their rhetoric and they too fail to address any opposition that refutes their posts (preferring to, instead, delete comments and then block the “traitor”) .

          If you could comprehended anything me and Marcia have typed, you’d understand this.

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          • Off note, I may play a drinking game:

            Take a shot everytime Roy has “enough of wasting time/this nonsense”, stating that he’s leaving us because he has better things to do.

            Take another shot after a short period of time when Roy comes back to post another comment.

            Bonus shot if, in that returning comment, he mentions that Islam is not a religion but a politically fascist ideology and they want to dominate the world, with nothing to back it up.

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            • So you haven’t seen the many online videos of Muslims marching in the streets of Luton and other towns in their ridiculous fancy dress clothes, pantaloons, Victorian night shirts, silly hats and filthy beards, holding up banners demanding shariah law for Britain then? This is NOT the Britain I know and was brought up in and I find it totally alien to my way of life and the British way of life. Am I not allowed to say that under your left-wing fascist ideology? I can only say that I am very glad I almost certainly won’t be around in 20 years’ time, and probably less, when Britain has been totally subjugated to 7th century Islam. You are sleepwalking into a nightmare but too stupid or naive to see it.

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              • “So you haven’t seen the many online videos of a TINY HANDFUL of Muslim EXTREMISTS marching in the streets of Luton…”

                I made some corrections for you. I hope you notice them.

                “This is NOT the Britain I know and was brought up in and I find it totally alien to my way of life and the British way of life.”

                This also isn’t the 1950’s anymore. Zeitgeist changes, man. Progression is happening whether you want it to or not. Your ere is a bygone one. Take of your nostalgia glasses from the good ‘ol days and embrace the sea of change. Or not. As you say, you’ll be dead soon anyway.

                “Am I not allowed to say that under your left-wing fascist ideology?”

                Say what you want. I don’t care. If EBF wanted you silenced, they’d remove your comments and block you from posting. I’m perfectly fine with free speech and would be hypocrite if I thought you couldn’t voice your bigotry. Ironic though, isn’t it? You want to silence those muslim on the streets…

                By the way, are you so far right that think anybody who opposes your abhorrent views is automatically left wing? i also want to point out that left wing fascism is an oxymoron.

                “…in 20 years’ time, and probably less, when Britain has been totally subjugated to 7th century Islam.”

                So, come one, Roy. Elaborate to us how this will be achieved. Or should I just take your word for it because you’re some omnipotent super being who can see into the future. Once again, time to back up your assertions or show every reader who the real stupid and naive one is.

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              • Oh where to begin with this diatribe? I’ll give it some thought there’s so much evidence of your wilfully ill-informed bigotry in so few sentences I really don’t know where to start. I’ll get back to you once I’ve assimilated the content of your ridiculous exaggerations, oxymoronic misunderstandings, semi-nostalgic fantasies and self-righteous, partisan preferences. In the meantime – how’s the drinking game progressing, Terry? You should be feeling fairly intoxicated by now!

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                • I’m now pretty drunk (for real) and my friend typed this after I explained about Roy and found it amusing:

                  Let’s pray that he gets hit by a car driven by a middle class genealogist bigot prick, taken to a hospital where the only doctor available is a Muslim man. Roy will refuse treatment (cause he won’t want a “foreigner’s” care). He then dies, goes to purgatory where he finds that Islam is the ‘one true religion’ and gets taken straight to Hell to endure an eternity of Rupert Murdoch repeatedly ramming a rolled up newspaper up his arse (and vice versa for Rupey’s bumhole) x

                  Also, my muslim friend had this to say about Roy’s accussation about muslims wanting to dominate the world (you don’t actually have to communicate with a muslim yourself Roy! I’ve done it for you. Buy me a pint of ale at least):

                  “First, we make non-Muslims love our food by feeding our neighbours and the needy.
                  We make them love our fashion but call it “hipster”
                  We send our discovery of coffee into the Western world and make everyone addicted.
                  Finally, when everyone is asleep, we play the call to prayer at a very quiet level to avoid detection. But it is enough to convert the entire world to the awesome Muslamic faith.
                  Everyone gets a ray gun in the party bag.
                  But it’s a SECRET so shh”

                  I still love you, Roy. And many muslims do too. You’re a fucking hero. I believe in you, Roy. Roy. Roy. Roy. The world will still spin, Roy. The UK will still be floating on the ocean and we will still have our British grains of sand. Sand needs a nationality because man has a nationality. Beef needs nationality too. Nationalism for everyone! Drink. Water.
                  .

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              • So, Roy you wrote…

                “So you haven’t seen the many online videos of Muslims marching in the streets of Luton and other towns”

                Yes. I’ve seen marches by many groups including Muslims, Britain Uncut, The Royal British Legion, The cubs and the brownies.

                “… in their ridiculous fancy dress clothes, pantaloons, Victorian night shirts, silly hats and filthy beards,”

                Your sense of fashion and what is or is not ‘ridiculous’ is entirel subjective and therefore a matter of personal taste. Even as hyperbolic rhetoric it has very limited currency outside of your own mind.

                “…holding up banners demanding shariah law for Britain then?”

                I’ve seen a couple of videos like this. They’re far outweighed by the many peaceful expressions and demonstrations against ISIS by Muslims. They also pali in number when measured against the violent demonstrations perpetrated by the far right.

                “This is NOT the Britain I know and was brought up in and I find it totally alien to my way of life”

                Times change. You didn’t have the internet, mobile phones or UKIP when you were a kid either. Should we ban them too?

                “…and the British way of life.”

                This IS modern, multi-cultural Britain. If you were brave enough to speak to some of those you denigrate you might be less scared of the nation you belong to.

                “Am I not allowed to say that under your left-wing fascist ideology?”

                Say what you like so long as you remain within the law. The far right censor debate. Here at EBF we prefer freedom of expression. But if you post bollocks you will be challenged on it!

                “I can only say that I am very glad I almost certainly won’t be around in 20 years’ time, and probably less,”

                I know death comes to us all but I hope you can find some peace before that time comes for you, Roy.

                “…when Britain has been totally subjugated to 7th century Islam.”

                The far right has threatened that so many times. In the 30s it was Jewish domination. In the 60s and onward it was Black domination. Stop believing propaganda and check the facts. The office of national statistice would be a good starting place. Your 7th century comment is just too silly for words. Do you really think Muslims don’t enjoy 21st century technology? Do you really believe that everyone born into a Muslim household denies scientific knowledge and wants people stoned to death? If so you really, really should go out and talk to some perfectly British, integrated and sensible Muslims.

                “You are sleepwalking into a nightmare”

                Unlike you I keep myself informed and I spend time talking with and meeting people who differ from me. There’s no nightmare outside of your sad, frightened little fantasy, Roy.

                “…but too stupid or naive to see it.”

                Hmmm. I think it’s only polite to let others decide who is the stupid one here, Roy!

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              • It’s interesting, Roy. When you ask me a direct question, I answer it. When I ask you a direct question you change the subject. Why is that?

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                  • Sometimes the issue isn’t to persuade the bigots but to have the conversation on the blog. That way they show themselves up which is a good way to show others how weak and intellectually impoverished the far right really is. Racists and Nazis always end up looking stupid in debate and that discourages others from joining their bigoted ranks. I don’t expect we’ll ever get through Roy’s ignorance but who knows how many others have turned away from joining the fash because we engaged with one on this public forum? That’s the real point of spending time refuting his ridiculous drivel.

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                    • That’s a good point, Marcia! Hopefully we can at least encourage other to think more critically and treat those “different” than us with respect.

                      For sure, these discussions are stimulating if nothing else.

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                    • Those fash who’ve already committed to their bigotry in public will tend to stay where they are. Cognitive dissonance actually makes them more sure than they were. So they’re usually a lost cause. But those who haven’t committed yet, once they see their future comrades destroyed so easily often turn away. That’s why I like it when we get trolls like Roy and Paul. I think my predecessor (EBFBlogger) found them tiring but I see them as a fantastic opportunity for discouraging would-be Biffers from joining.

                      Liked by 1 person

  8. And now the Muslim murdering animals strike yet again in Munich. You must by now be running out of excuses to appease them or do you lie awake at night desperately thinking up new ones? No doubt you will yet again trot out the same old parrot cry: these are not real Muslims? So what would you call them?

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    • We’d call them Muslims. Just as we called the IRA Christians. But just as the IRA didn’t/don’t represent all Christians, terrorists in Germany don’t represent all Muslims. What’s your point, Roy?

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    • When you edited The News of The World how did you define the IRA & Bader-Meinhoff? Did you advocate persecuting all Christians or all Germans, for example?

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      • Get your facts straight, as you keep telling me to do! I never edited the News of the World, I was a roving reporter, then deputy features and finally serialisations editor, buying books for serialisation in the paper and the accompanying Sunday magazine.

        It’s interesting, isn’t it, that no terrorists seem to be Catholics, Methodists, Jews, Buddhists or Sikhs, only Muslims? As others have commented, not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims! How much longer do you propose to remain in denial as to what is happening in the world?

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    • Hmm. Seems to be some doubt whether the assailants were Muslim terrorists or German nationalist terrorists. Any comments, Roy given your earlier assumption?

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    • Are you privy to information that we’re not? It’s just that no media has mentioned his identity as of yet other than he is a German who acted alone. Attaboy, Roy, let your bigotry jump to assumptions.

      Let me guess, though: if it does turn out to be a muslim, he will, in your view, represent all muslims and will be labeled a terrorist instead of a lone wolf who had mental problems. Sounds about right, doesn’t it?

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      • So, Roy, turned out you were just being presumptuous afterall! – http://nypost.com/2016/07/23/munich-killer-went-on-shooting-rampage-as-revenge-for-being-bullied/

        That’s what many years of being brainwashed by islamophobic tabloid and newsites does to you – automatically scapegoat muslims for an atrocity committed before identity and motivations are revealed.

        So what would you call this young boy who was obsessed with Anders Behring Breivik, Roy?

        It’s horrible that these mass shootings seem to be happening frequently. The people who carry out these heinous crimes, no matter what their skin colour, ethnicity, nationality and religion, are all truly despicable human beings and it’s always innocent civilians that suffer at their hands.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. I think you will find the German media are failing to tell the full story, as usual, for rampant political correctness has terrified western governments and the media throughout Europe into hiding the facts for fear of offending Muslims. He may have been born in Germany but other sources say he was an Iranian Muslim.

    And presumably you missed the murders of another 80 or so people blasted into fragments of skin and bone in Afghanistan? One faction of Muslims slaughtering another faction of Muslims!

    And yet you persist in your denial that Islam is the most hideous, backward, barbaric movement in history, as evil as the Nazis and Japanese troops in WWII, and a malignant cancer in the human race?

    You are as naive as small children who believe gremlins and fairies live at the bottom of the garden!

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    • “I think you will find the German media are failing to tell the full story, as usual, for rampant political correctness has terrified western governments and the media throughout Europe into hiding the facts for fear of offending Muslims. He may have been born in Germany but other sources say he was an Iranian Muslim.”

      He had dual citizenship, but was born in Germany. And not one source (that I’ve read so far) has stated he was a muslim. If anything, the majority of the western media are extremely biased against muslims and are only too happy to report a muslim committing whatever atrocity when it happens. And now, a terror act has been committed by a non-muslim and because you so desperately want it to be a muslim, you are calling all media liars?! What the fuck is wrong with you?! Unbelievable. All because it doesn’t fit in with your narrative that all terrorists are muslim. Again, you are experience cognitive dissonance.

      “And presumably you missed the murders of another 80 or so people blasted into fragments of skin and bone in Afghanistan? One faction of Muslims slaughtering another faction of Muslims!”

      You brought up the Munich attack and so we commented on it. Presumptuous once again – I’m aware that it has happened. It’s absolutely terrible. So what’s your point? That muslims are also victims of extremism? We already knew that, Roy.

      “And yet you persist in your denial that Islam is the most hideous, backward, barbaric movement in history, as evil as the Nazis and Japanese troops in WWII, and a malignant cancer in the human race?”

      As are your views, Roy. Every muslim that I’ve met; my muslim friends are nothing like what you stated nor you; they have compassion, empathy and are generally peaceful and friendly, yet you are full of vitriol and hatred. Hey Roy, seeing as brought it up, swap out muslims for jews in every one of your post and tell me you don’t sound like a fucking nazi.

      “You are as naive as small children who believe gremlins and fairies live at the bottom of the garden!”

      Yet you refuse to believe evidence and facts because they contradict your core belief that all muslims want to dominate the world, so you instead try to rationalise it in your small, pig ignorant mind and ignore our rebuttals because you don’t want to accept that you are wrong.

      Ha, yeah but sure, we’re naive.

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    • Just wanted to further add, regarding the Munich killer, that the media can’t be “failing to tell the full story” as there’s footage of the conversation the killer had where he states he got bullied and basically wanted revenge for it. Look back at my previous links that you probably just ignored and watch for yourself and translate it.

      Even if he were a muslim (of which there is no certainty at this time), Roy, there was no religious motivation for him committing this heinous crime. He was severely depressed because of being bullied and was also obsessed with other mass shootings. Evidence, Roy. It’s there for you to read about and we’ve even provided links for you in previous posts as you seemingly don’t care for conducting your own research and citing proof.

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    • Really, Roy? Breitbart? And so what? Nobody disputes his background was Muslim. But that doesn’t appear to be the motivation for this.

      The more you cling desperately to these straws you’ve clutched at the less credible you appear. You keep it up.

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  10. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7576357/Muslim-staff-escape-NHS-hygiene-rule.html

    Yet more kowtowing to Muslims to avoid offending their backward, ignorant, barbaric bloody religion! Is there ANYTHING at all that doesn’t offend them??? What other so-called religion finds so many things in life, and in our way of life particularly, offensive? Is there anything at all they do approve of other than going down the mosque 16 times a day and sticking their bums in the air and wailing “Praise be to Allah” and all that s**t? They really are the most boring, puritanical and dreary people on the planet when they’re not blowing other people up! What other group makes so many and such outrageous demands that we all bow down to them and be subservient to their petty and never-ending demands? Now do you understand why I want nothing whatsoever to do with them – no more than do millions of people who loathe and despise their medieval culture?

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    • I understand why, Roy. The reasons include…
      Fear of those unlike yourself;
      Gullibility to propaganda
      Hyperbolic thinking
      The need to feel superior
      An inate need to hate someone
      Inability to sort fact from fantasy

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  11. And of course you have deliberately avoided my query as to what other religion or movement other than Muslims constantly makes so many repeated demands that we all kowtow and bow down to their ridiculous whims and fancies, or any other group of people who are offended by so many things? Have you ever met a Muslim with the remotest vestige of a sense of humour, for instance? Can you name any other movement that appears to be offended by so many things? Why is it when Muslims burn poppies and call British soldiers baby murderers the law and the cowardly police do nothing, yet when a mosque is smeared with bacon or an English flag is displayed outside a mosque it’s called a hate crime and the perpetrators actually jailed? Why is it that when male Muslims groom young girls for sex the authorities and media try to hide the fact that Muslims are involved? We are so terrified of offending Muslims that the rule of law and British justice has been turned on its head and used against our own people? I don’t give the proverbial monkeys what you people say, Islam is utterly incompatible with European society and culture because it is 1,000 years and more behind us, backward and uncivilised, and if Muslims want to live under shariah law, then there is a simple solution – let them go and live in a country that has it rather than try to change us.

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    • I answered that question on Saturday, Roy. Yes I’ve met several Muslims with senses of humour. The poppy burners in Luton were prosecuted. We covered the motivation for trying to downplay Muslim involvement months ago on the blog. Look it up. Nobody I know is afraid to offend any religious group. I know of many who confidently claim that ‘everybody else’ is. For those few Muslims who want Shariah, I agree. Just as I think you should find a totalitarian state to move to. You’re clearly incompatible with the modern freedoms that we enjoy here in UK.

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    • “And of course you have deliberately avoided my query as to what other religion or movement other than Muslims constantly makes so many repeated demands that we all kowtow and bow down to their ridiculous whims and fancies, or any other group of people who are offended by so many things? Have you ever met a Muslim with the remotest vestige of a sense of humour, for instance?”

      Are you saying people complaining and being offended by something so much they want to ban things is only exclusive to muslims? Throughout my life, people have demanded tv series to be cancelled; episodes to be pulled down; to have censor music and ban music videos; people have wanted to ban certain video games; demanded that artistic graffiti removed because they don’t like/agree with it and I could go on.

      Unfortunately, we live in a society made up of self-centred individuals who want us all to cater for their every ridiculous whims and fancies – it’s not just some handful of muslims that you’ve yet again cherry picked in order to confirm your bias. 1 individual ≠ millions of people – I can’t fathom why you can’t grasp this – just like those who complain that videogames should be banned for fear of children becoming murderers do not represent me.

      “Have you ever met a Muslim with the remotest vestige of a sense of humour, for instance?”

      How would you know that muslims don’t have a sense of humour when you daren’t speak to one? You ignored my drunken post the other day where I shared what my muslim friend had to say about your paranoia of her and those who share the same faith as her (muslims) want to dominate the world. I’ll post it again as it shows her sense of humour:

      “First, we make non-Muslims love our food by feeding our neighbours and the needy.

      We make them love our fashion but call it “hipster”.

      We send our discovery of coffee into the Western world and make everyone addicted.

      Finally, when everyone is asleep, we play the call to prayer at a very quiet level to avoid detection. But it is enough to convert the entire world to the awesome Muslamic faith.

      Everyone gets a ray gun in the party bag.

      But it’s a SECRET so shh.”

      You’re the one who comes off as humourless. I suppose it’s all that vitriol coursing through your veins.

      “Why is it when Muslims burn poppies and call British soldiers baby murderers the law and the cowardly police do nothing, yet when a mosque is smeared with bacon or an English flag is displayed outside a mosque it’s called a hate crime and the perpetrators actually jailed?”

      You do realise that some of the perpetrators have long been prosecuted, no? That Anjem Choudary is on trial? You don’t care for facts, do you? And if you’re referring to groups like the EDL or BF, then you know that they are not innocently just putting up a flag – they go to antagonise muslims and incite violence which, yes, is against the law. I’m surprised that a man of your calibre is defending thugs.

      And what is wrong opposing the british military? I do too – all military. Free speech, Roy, you want it, yes?

      “Why is it that when male Muslims groom young girls for sex the authorities and media try to hide the fact that Muslims are involved?”

      Again, this isn’t exclusive to muslims. Jimmy Saville’s scandal was also covered up – perhaps even by Thatcher! It’s sickening that this went on and probably still does. But again, don’t make out that it’s only a muslim problem.

      I don’t give the proverbial monkeys what you people say, Islam is utterly incompatible with European society and culture because it is 1,000 years and more behind us, backward and uncivilised,”

      Yet millions have integrated fine. You do realise that as you trawl through the internet, looking for selective articles highlighting isolated cases, the majority of muslims that go unnoticed by you and your myopic view as well as the media, are just trying to live peaceful, happy and prosperous lives – you know, like most human beings do. I’d wager my left bollock that you still don’t grasp it.

      I personally think that you are backwards and uncivilized too, Roy. This is modern multicultural Britain so get over it. Or continue to be offended by it – oh look, you’re a person making ridiculous demands as well as making silly assertions and expect us to kowtow to your whims and fancies. Go join their club, Roy. You’re such a person you supposedly despise. You’re a hypocrite. Go figure.

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        • When will you stop equatting the actions of a minority with the intentions of the majority, Roy. There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the world. If they wanted the rest of us dead the rest of us wouldn’t be dealing with a few thousand nutters… we’d be long dead. Use your brain, man! Stop being such a superficial bigot!

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          • So 1.7 million people are brainwashed zombies with a backward and ignorant belief in a 7th century culture that should long ago have been eradicated from the planet? Has no-one ever told you that millions of people in the Middle Ages believed that everything in the universe revolved around the Earth until Galileo proved they were wrong? Has no-one ever told you how Darwin showed what nonsense creationism was? Just because millions of people believe something, it doesn’t make it true! It demonstrates only how much appalling ignorance and superstitious mumbo jumbo there is in backward, simple-minded people and a culture that has absolutely no place in a civilised continent like Europe.

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    • No it isn’t. You of all people should understand the hyperbole of those who write with a right wing bias and Weston is as far right as they come. Even more dishonest than the News of the world was (if that’s possible).

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  12. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3710274/Gang-Muslims-storm-nudist-pool-Germany-yelling-Allahu-Akbar-threatening-exterminate-women-sluts.html?ito=social-facebook

    Sexual repressed young Muslim men, clearly in need of psychiatric treatment, invade a public swimming pool threatening young women and calling them sluts. Why cannot you understand that these people are savages and barbarians and violent animals with no understanding of Western society at all?Why are you on the Far Left constantly in denial about the threat they pose?

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    • I’m not far left at all, Roy. I’d describe myself as a moderate socialist. The rest of EBF consists of a very wide range of views across the political spectrum (excluding the far right, of course). We include labour voters, tories, LibDems, Greens and a single communist. We have no UKIP, BNP or anarchists but pretty much everything else from conservative to communist. You see anti-discrimination isn’t just the domain of the far left. All decent people oppose you and your religiously-motivated hatred of innocents, irrespective of political affiliation.

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      • Innocents????? Are you serious? These young Muslim men are uncivilised savages and barbarians from an age that is centuries behind us in the West. I cannot scarcely believe that you call them “innocents”! They derive from a culture that barely belongs on this planet, never mind Europe.

        Can you please, just once, explain this to me: how is it that these Muslim men are so sexually repressed and backward that the merest glimpse of an inch of female flesh drives them into paroxysms of rage and fury? And of course, if they attack, assault and rape a woman it’s the woman’s fault? Clearly, they are extremely immature and incapable of forming proper relationships with women. And you have the gall to call them “innocents”. I see very little point in continuing with this debate since you are so astonishingly naive and in denial.

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        • The innocents I refer to are the peaceful majority of Muslims as well you know, Roy
          As to your second question – I’m not a psychologist. You’d need to ask someone skilled in that area.

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  13. I am also annoyed, Mercia, that you keep dragging up the News of the World! You should know a few things about me and my career…..

    1) I retired from Fleet Street almost 20 years ago, several years before the phone hacking occurred.

    2) In my principal years on the NotW it was a totally different newspaper which you are probably too young even to remember. However, it was a large broadsheet with an old-fashioned masthead and look, not a red-top tabloid at all. Its principal diet being court cases and sport, of which it was acknowledged to have the finest coverage in the business. I spent 10 years covering Assizes all over England, wrote hundreds of stories, many exposing conmen who I got sent to jail, and I was never once sued for libel or anything else. I travelled widely around Britain, Europe and America, reporting from abroad. I later became a features executive, in charge of other writers and freelances, and finally the serialisations editor in charge of buying major books and other properties for serials in the paper and associated Sunday magazine. I was responsible for spending large amounts of Rupert Murdoch’s money which gave me enormous pleasure!

    3) The News of the World in the 1960s had the largest circulation of any newspaper in the entire world, 8 million! But of course you lefties hate success don’t you, which is why I expect you read the Guardian, a paper with a circulation of about 14 people and a dog!!!

    My last two decades have been spent as a professional genealogist, a second career in which I happen to be one of the best-known genealogists in the country, writing for magazines, editing the Journal of One-Name Studies for 10 years and spending 12 years on the Board of Trustees of the Society of Genealogists which is the largest private genealogical library and family history society in the country, and have two blogs and a Facebook page about my one-name study and special interest in celebrity ancestries.

    It is by my recent career, in which I am very well known, by which I expect to be judged, not by your cheap and ignorant sneers about something I did many years ago. I have no idea what you do or did for a living but I wouldn’t dream of commenting or sneering at it. Your cheap jibes and sneers only devalue the worth of your comments here.

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    • I think in this context I’ll judge you bybyour comments here, Roy. These paint a very lurid pucture of a bigotted right-wing little Englander who thinks he can use hyperbole, unsubstantiable generalisations and second-hand media distortions to persuade the rest of us to be as hate-filled as himself.

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    • Interesting: you seem to only directly respond to us after we make “sneer” comments about your former employment at The News of The World (to which then you give us an extensive copy and paste reply about your “enriching” and “well travelled” experience in your career that we don’t care for – we’re already aware that you’re a genealogist, lord knows you’ve brought it up at any opportunity to do so. By the way, do your celebrity friends know about your bigoted views? Do your avid blog readers? I wonder if they’d think twice getting you to research their ancestry if they knew your views?) otherwise you seldom address any of our rebuttals.

      “Innocents????? Are you serious? These young Muslim men are uncivilised savages and barbarians from an age that is centuries behind us in the West. I cannot scarcely believe that you call them “innocents”! They derive from a culture that barely belongs on this planet, never mind Europe.”

      This is why I’m getting exasperated with responding to you: if you could comprehend all that we’ve typed on here, you’d know that we too condemn those individuals who commit horrendous crimes, but the actions of a few does not represent every single individual that also shares the same faith. Here I am parroting myself again. I really can’t put it any plainer or simpler: yes, there are bad muslims out there, Roy, and there are also bad Englishman out there, Roy, but these bad people do not represent everyone who is a muslim like a couple of my friends and an Englishman like you and I. Would you like it if people kept cherry picking articles, portraying english people doing bad things and then associating you with them all because you share the same nationality? If you still can not grasp that, Roy, then I give up.

      But you know what though? I’m getting bored of you now anyway, Roy. You still haven’t bothered with addressing a lot of points I’ve made or any of my rebuttals to you; you still haven’t bothered to address your supposed humanism which I called bullshit on.

      As Marcia has said before: you may be a lost cause, Roy, but hopefully any observer with an iota of intelligence can see that you are suffering from cognitive dissonance and the only laughable argument you keep putting across; cherry picking (a lot of which are old) articles is a fallacy – guilt by association.

      As I mentioned in my last post to you, roy (another one you ignored), for every isolated incident you bring up about a muslim committing a heinous crime or a muslim being offended by whatever, there are millions of muslims that will go largely unnoticed by you and the media for they are just living their lives peacefully, happily and hopefully prosperously just like you and I and everybody else; millions of muslims that are not trying to impede upon you way of life, Roy, for it is their way of life too; millions of muslims that also live the “British way of life” and by its values. But yeah, you go ahead and just focus all of your efforts being selective and then tarring a whole group of people who have done fuck all to receive your spite and hatred. Go you.

      Unless you bother to address anything I post and without resorting to call me a “lefty” or a “bleeding heart liberal”, or you post something that isn’t you stuck on the same record, then I think I’ll call it a day with you. I can only repeat myself and read your parrotted comments so many times before they become yawn inducing.

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    • Oh dear, Roy. You are very well aware that we do not condone assaults of any kind. We simply object to the generalised discrimination that attributes these crimes to an entire demographic. Your refusal to acknowledge that point (which you are clearly intelligent enough to acknowledge) is disappiinting but far from ‘beyond belief’. In fact it is all too common in this increasingly hate-driven society.

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    • Depends on how you define British. Oh, I get it – you mean white! The issue here isn’t citizenship, is it? It’s colour & creed (very) thinly disguised and dishonestly equated to a criminal/innocent dichotomy.

      But just in case I’ve misunderstood… Tell me why you think it’s a problem that not everyone in London happens to be white British. I note you don’t seem to care about British citizens who aren’t white.

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        • “immigrant scum criminals”, eh. Careful, Roy. If the selected links you post hadn’t been enough you’ve definitely started to show your true colours now. And you started out trying so hard to appear reasonable too!

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          • In the old saying, there’s none so blind as those who cannot see. You continue to amaze me with your naivety and complete denial of what is happening in Europe. I do not even begin to understand you. As a socialist I would have assumed you are a feminist too and, therefore, totally opposed to everything the backward and malignant cancer known as Islam stands for – misogyny and woman being treated as third-class citizens, Muslim men being allowed to marry multiple wives and being able to divorce them so easily, gays being chucked off rooftops, honour killings, i.e. murders excused for religious reasons, female genital mutilation, girls as young as 10 or 12 being forced into marriages with men they don’t even know, young Muslim men rampaging and assaulting females and raping them and then claiming it’s the women’s fault for dressing provocatively, gangs of Muslim men running criminal rackets and poncing and sponging off their own kind as well as other immigrants…..and many many more gross offences. And yet you make excuses for them and cosy up to them and support them!!! Truly, I am lost for words to understand your attitude. Why can you not see that many of these so-called “refugees” and migrants are nothing but low-life animals from Arab countries that have no understanding whatsoever of our way of life and hate and despise us for our democracy and freedoms and want to destroy us because they follow a 7th century so-called prophet and madman who told them this is what they should do and they are so ignorant they believe it. Tell you what, why don’t you invite some of them to dinner and watch them urinate and defecate all over your furniture and carpets, because this is what some of them do…or didn’t you know this? There are photos easily found with Google of Muslim males p***ing and sh***ing in public streets and on railway station platforms and in trains in Sweden and Germany because this is how backward and disgusting some of them are. Still, it’s up to you to welcome them to your bosom if you so wish!

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            • My attitude is simple. I’ve explained it before. I oppose discrimination. I oppose violence. I oppose fascism. I oppose intolerance. I oppose everything you stand for, Roy.

              I have friends from many nationalities, religions and ethnic backgrounds. Not one of them has ever shat on my carpet. In fact the only filth I’m routinely exposed to is the propaganda that comes from far right haters like you, Roy!

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        • Lionheart news (AKA another of Dowson’s Britain First propaganda sites). You really should check your sources more, Roy. We exposed Lionheart’s neoNazi pedigree ages ago! But then that’ll be no surprise to you, will it?

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  14. It would appear to me that you oppose one bunch of neo-Nazis by supporting another bunch of neo-Nazis, i.e. Muslims. What’s the difference? As I keep telling you, Islam is a fascist political movement intent on imposing its warped, perverted and evil philosophy on the whole world. What sort of a so-called religion is it that demands that anyone who doesn’t follow it must be killed? And please don’t waffle on yet again about moderate Muslims – there is no such thing or person! It is a misnomer, an oxymoron, because even “moderate” Muslims are brainwashed by their perverted, so-called religion and demand that everyone must kowtow to them and the non-existent being they call Allah and the 7th century s**t they believe in.

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    • The fact that you keep saying it doesn’t nake it true, Roy. Most British Muslims are law abiding people who just want to get along. Your refusal to accept that here (in spite of the fact you’ve made the exact same point in comments to your local paper) demonstrates your contempt for truth and justice, Roy.

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      • I just stumbled across this discussion after having left a comment regarding the main topic.
        The following is from experience, i.e. I’ve been several times to the Middle East (professionally) and can assure you that almost all those countries, and above all Saudi Arabia, are fascist dictatorships. The Muslims in the UK as in other western democracies are a minority and are as such always demanding ‘respect’ from the majority. In those countries where the Muslims are in a majority they are the most intolerable bunch you’ll ever meet. I personally am an atheist and had to declare a (false) religion on my visa papers. Why you ask ? Well, because in those countries other religions are ‘tolerated’ but you are not allowed to openly profess them. For the Muslims, and especially the Arabs, they consider that you actually believe in Allah, but that you follow a misleading branch. Atheism on the other hand carries the death penalty. In other words, you have to believe in a god.

        So please don’t defend the Muslims as ‘peaceful’ because as soon as they are in the majority they become fascists.

        Liked by 1 person

        • And you’ve spoken to each and every single muslim to arrive at this conclusion, have you? And we’re just supposed to take your word for it? Or, like the ostensibly humanist, Roy, are you just making sweeping statements?

          I see where you’re coming from though: I’ve met some intolerable right wing bigots so therefore all right wingers are intolerable bigots. Logical thinking that.

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        • Thank you! You have expressed just about everything I find intolerable about Muslims, including even the so-called “moderate” and peaceful ones. Most of us manage to live in the 21st century but they are deeply rooted in the 7th century. They appear to be offended by about 14 thousand-and-one things in our way of life, including democratic freedoms like free speech which they appear not to understand at all in their backward and barbaric minds. Nor do they understand the concept that you and I believe in which is that there is NO GOD and that religion is there to be criticised, nor is it sacrosanct. This is a concept Muslims appear to have extreme difficulty in coping with, since they are the products of many centuries of brainwashing and ignorance from birth.

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          • Some Muslims, Roy. The same is true for some Christians and also some atheists who are themselves extremely intolerant of others’ views.

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  15. Tell me something, please, Marcia! You say you have friends from many ethnic backgrounds and religions. If the supernatural, non-existent being you no doubt call God or Allah really exists, why does he need so many branch offices and versions of his faith and why does he allow such mayhem in the world – unless , of course, it’s all a load of utter bollocks and there is no such person or being at all and the billions of ignorant and gullible idiots who believe the crap are totally brainwashed zombies wallowing in self delusion?

    As a self proclaimed socialist, you must know perfectly well that all religions (so called) are garbage and simply products of the ignorant human mind and, moreover, that the more extreme and perverted examples of religious zeal are the most barbaric and dangerous purveyors of hatred and violence on the planet. Of these, Islam is by far and away the most perverted and dangerous.

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    • I adhere to no faith. But I respect the right of others to live peacefully as they choose. That’s where we differ. You seem so entrenched in generalised hatred you refuse to acknowledge the peaceful majority whilst advocating the destruction of those who disagree with you. Your hypocrisy is obvious to all, Roy – presumably even to yourself – as is your bigotry.

      Liked by 1 person

  16. great piece however your knowledge is lacking. Criminal conviction records if they survive are only closed for 100 years so if he was in jail in the 1901 census those records will now be available. THat said as an amateur you wasnt to know this

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  17. Interesting article. Well written and fair.
    The comments were just as interesting. Especially the bigot – we need clowns to keep us laughing.
    Here’s an interesting nugget…
    Hitler had the Nazi law defining Jewishness written to exclude Jesus Christ and himself after doubting his own ‘purity’ after rumours that his grandfather may have been Jewish.
    Turns out that probably wasn’t the case but I admit to liking the idea of him thinking it may have been true.
    Wonder how Frantzen feels

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  18. […] I’ve been studying family history now for long enough to suspect that you aren’t completely British. Fransen is not a British name. So I decided to have a little dig around. Let’s start with your paternal grandparents; John Joseph Fransen, or rather Jan Jozef Wynand Fransen. Born in the Netherlands in 1927, Jan came to England with the Dutch Naval fleet. (Full blog post here) […]

    Like

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