We’ve been having a bit of a discussion amongst ourselves here at EBF. We’re a tight-knit team and most of the time we resolve our disagreements pretty quickly. That’s what happens when reasonable people are prepared to listen to each other and weigh up all sides of an argument before reaching a decision.
This time it’s different though. This time we’re still unsure. So we’re asking for opinions from you, the backbone of EBF who help to spread our message so thoroughly through your social media accounts and everyday conversations.
The question we’re having trouble answering is this…
Do the rank and file Biffers really not know that they’re being lied to?
We’re not asking about BF’s core Biffers and leadership. They clearly know the truth. Their behaviours and responses make it absolutely clear that they’re lying consciously and deliberately. It’s the ordinary people they’re sucking into their hatred who we’re uncertain about.
Please let us know your thoughts on this. We think it’s an important question, not least because knowing the answer will help us to be more effective in reaching those who support Britain First and spread its hatred.
We know that traditionally EBF supporters tend to leave comments on Facebook and that’s great. But in this case we’d like to ask that you reply on the blog. Of course, you’re very welcome to comment on Facebook too but if we get all the responses in one place it’ll be much easier for us to collate your replies.
So go on – let us know your opinion…
Are Britain First’s supporters really as blinkered as all that or are they deliberately ignoring the truth for their own reasons?
Just leave a reply below and dive in.
ExposingBF Blog 
Methinks you anti-biffers protest too much. On occasions you go overboard in your condemnation of BF.This makes many of BF’s supporters believe that there must be a lot right with the organisation and that you lot are just shit stirring in desperation to do BF damage. It will take a far more measured approach to dealing with a group you so obviously hate than you have displayed so far.
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I’ve yet to see a biffa comment “I’m quite concerned about the increase of Islam in the UK,” so I can’t comment on what the reaction would be at EBF should that happen.
What sort of response is appropriate to “burn it down with Muslim kids in,” is appropriate?
Or are you bringing out the canard that “you can’t say anything without being called racist?”
I’d love a debate on the issues but I’m still waiting.
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I am mystified that the very word “racist” is bandied about so freely among adherents of EBF. How many more times is it necessary to point out that Islam and muslims are NOT a race. I among a multitude of concerned Brits are extremely worried about the ever increasing Islamization of the UK and other countries across Europe like Sweden,Norway, France, Germany,Belgium,Holland and Spain., Stealth Jihad is a large part of the problem where Muslim parents have on average twice the number of children as other couples. A large part of such jihad is the large number of extremist mosques and muslim proseletyzing in colleges and universities. Islamic organisations such as CAGE have known ties to the Muslim Brotherhood whilst doing their very best to be seen as opposing jihad and terrorism.The ultimate goal is the complete takeover of the world;s democracies and establish the Ummah,the universal world of Islam ruled by shari’a law.
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David, your many comments here have provided us with a wealth of debunking opportunities. From the sources you cite to the assertions you make. You have provided so many inaccuracies to expose that unwittingly you’ve inspired so many more blog posts it’s hard to keep up just planning the titles.
Keep them coming. We particularly liked the way you used tired old far right nonsense like fears over the birth rate or the citation of think tanks in place of independent sources. So many inaccuracies to debunk. So many posts to write. So little time. 🙂
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Contrary to your comments ALL mine are very well researched and explained and add immeasurably to the scant knowledge that you and other members of the tribe display!
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Now that really is funny, David. Don’t worry though, we’ll debunk your myths (for your education) in separate posts over the next few weeks.
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I will look forward with relish to debunking and tearing apart the drivel which litters EBF comments!
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David, the word racist is bandied about so freely because more often than not scratch beneath the surface their is racist motives. Take for example a story about an Asian man committing a crime that Britain First post, the story will not mention the man’s religious beliefs anywhere yet inevitably commenter’s will call “muzzie” or some other poorly considered derogatory, colloquial word for Muslim. There was even one case where there was an awful story (can’t remember what off the top of my head) with a picture of a man speaking out but because he was Asian commenter’s assumed he was the perpetrator despite being 100% innocent. This is all based on the assumption that all Muslims are extremists – the most commonly held belief amongst Britain First supporters such as yourself. Of course this assumption is wrong but the premise of my argument holds because it is based on the logic used. By assuming that every Asian is Muslim that is inherently racist.
Lets just assume for the minute that we are all completely wrong and none of you are at all racist in anyway. I do have a point to this that follows on from above so bear with me on this. Let us just assume that the only people you target are Muslims and that this targeting is in no way affected by any preconceptions of what a Muslim looks like. What you are left with is hate. When you boil everything else away what is left is hatred and bigotry. These fundamental things are what you claim to be against yet the behaviour of the average Britain First based on their posts is hatred and bigotry. How can you justify being better than ISIS and other such groups when you display the same behaviour and advocate horrendous crimes against Muslims? I think my point has been made.
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Grizzlyvamp, I have very obviously upset you. You may be relieved to learn that particularly since the BF’s monumental and laughable disaster at Dudley I have totally revised my opinion about this bunch of uneducated idiots. However, I resent bitterly your comment about my being a racist and an Islamophobe. I have no problem with MUSLIMS but I loathe Islam-which is NOT a race! There are so many deluded people around-many on here-who believe that they can just pick various bits of the Qur’an and find nice things in it. How wrong can they be. As I have stated before on here I have studied the Qur’an,the Hadith(sayings of Muhammad) and Sunnah (traditions of the Prophet) for 15+ years, together with articles by Robert Spencer an acclaimed expert on Islam and I have read the world famous books by Ibn Warraq an EX Muslim “Why I am not a muslim” and “Leaving Islam”
The ONLY version of that unholy book permitted by the leading school of Islamic jurisprudence,the Al Azhar University in Cairo is the one collated by Caliph Uthman in around 760AD some 30 years after Muhammad’s death. It contains over 100 verses detailing all sorts of extremely nasty death and destruction of non-muslims,particularly Jews-and even Christians-referring to Jews as “apes and pigs”. Apparently I have run out of space but I do not dislike muslims per se but i do thoroughly dislike those who live here and come here to enjoy all the benefits(literally in so many cases)and spend so much of their time complaining about our culture(SO much superior to Islam’s) whilst DEMANDING shari’a law, mega mosques at a time when THOUSANDS of churches in the ME built 350 years before Muhammad invented Islam are being desecrated, separate swimming baths for muslim children,separate entrances to university halls of residence,halal meat, wearing full face veils( unknown in a Christian country which David Cameron affirmed we were recently, and taking the piss in reviling our police and our soldiers. I am and always have been a huge supporter of so-called “moderate” muslims yet very few-if any-on here realise that ORTHODOX Islam regards these in the same light as we Infidels and if shari’a law was practised here they would be in danger of dire punishment even death. It is now Wednesday morning and I must get some beauty?? sleep but I do hope that in future you will not brand me as a racist which by hating Islam I cannot be only a religionist!
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David, the word “Racist” was clarified decades ago not to be limited to an outdated concept of “race”.
What’s more, the word “race” itself simply means “root”. People can have religious as well as genetic roots. It’s a very small percentage of people who follow a religion different from their parents’.
You are perfectly free never to have to use the word “Racism” to mean prejudice on grounds of religion but that is a valid meaning. You don’t get to tell others that they cannot use one particular meaning of a word because you don’t use it that way.
So I’d have referred to as racist those who in the 70s and 80s pointed to the relatively high birth rates of Irish immigrants as a Catholic invasion. They were wrong then, why should anyone listen to the same narrative aimed at a different set of immigrants?
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Excellent explanation Dog Biscuit(I would be delighted to know your name0and I will bear your words in mind.Thank you.
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David not really its an information war, the battleground facebook. what these guys do is almost match each post made by the ideology with either fact or humor and satire. if you analyse the EBF page its counter propaganda using “truth” so restoring balance. I agree BF could be terminally damaged with little or no real input and quickly and legally in a more measured manner but that isnt the role of these guys. It would take no more than 90 days to do. keep up the good work EBF Blog. thank you for your service.
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Would be interested to know what you mean when you allude to a 90 day destruction of BF Sebastian
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EBF Blogger. BF could be (in my very humble opinion) and im looking at this in terms of how a hostile take over commercially works, could be destroyed in no more than 90 days. 90 days in business terms being the magic number. they need finance and they steal finance from those very brave and humble Souls or our Armed forces. I would personally arrange for a TV crew with someone like John Mcknight and a wounded and young veteran to visit Lewis and Lomax at home. Make them sit down face to face with the full horror of what these brave young Men have to live with eg the rest of their lives without limbs. Make them look into the eyes of these brave wounded men and let the emotion of guilt, shame and remorse do the rest. veterans from Iraq or Afghanistan and allow the BF guys to realize these Men dont hate Muslims. When they are doorstepped they are in a catch 22 they either do the interview and they are confronted with the reality of the deception they are caught up in or they are humiliated on national TV this would then create amazing media coverage kill off the lifeblood of money into the ideology and then also remove the core players. They do however need to be offered some carrot given these people are simply lost Souls. Allow them to speak without the organ grinder. Hear there fears and address them with respect and in truth and the hate would fall away. Or they are humiliated on national TV (pardon the syntax im on a BB) they would also need a new cause given thats what their need is “to feel important” Golding would then be left alone with no money, no credibility and no people . This is what I would do hope that helps
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Sebastian I would like very much to comment on your post but the site wont allow me to for some reason. I hate to admit that ANYONE on here is more erudite than me! Vanity has been a big failing of mine. SO,I take great pleasure in stating that your intellect and grasp of so many matters is unparallelled on this board. I think that your ideas on eliminating BF are extremely clever but horribly impractical although I wish that they were not. I look forward with huge relish to all your next posts.
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The site does allow you to comment David. In fact you just did. Unlike BF we prefer to discuss rather than block those with whom we disagree!
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I SHOULD have said that the wrong commenter came up when I wanted to reply to YOU.
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David, Muslims follow Islam – therefore by extension you loathe (your word not mine) Muslims since you loathe their religion. I hereby rest my case on my Islamophobe statement but in case you want a stronger case “I loathe Islam” I think says it all as they are your words.
As for the racism comment I never directly called you racist though I appreciate there was implication when I said “the most commonly held belief amongst Britain First supporters such as yourself.” which from your comments I assumed you were. In my defence you admitted to supporting Britain First until very recently and your attitude reflects that. If you are honestly telling me that you have never accused someone of being Muslim because they are Asian/Black or told someone to go back to their country based on the colour of their skin then I honestly appologise and rescind my accusation, however if you have thought like that then I stand by my statement as that attitude is completely racist. Lie if you want, no one here will be able to verify either way and I am sure that everyone will take your word for it but I would remind you that you would know deep down that your lying. Either way I stand by what I said both in this post and my previous post.
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grizzlyvamp, I do not enjoy calling anyone stupid.However your statement that it is not possible to hate Islam without hating muslims is utterly wrong and ludicrous! It’s very much like going to an art exhibition and hating a picture there,not even knowing the painter and saying that you hate him/her.
My attitude to the whole business might well be summed up by the celebrated French explorer,expert on Middle East ancient languages,philosopher,historian and writer,Ernest Ronan who towards the end of C19 wrote: ” Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror. TO LIBERATE THE MUSLIM FROM HIS RELIGION IS THE VERY BEST SERVICE THAT ONE CAN RENDER HIM!
I strongly suggest that it is people like you who obviously know little or nothing about the subject in hand and are happy to print lies as truths who carry on making matters between Muslims and others so bitter. Muslims who do not follow the horrible and unholy book the Qur’an are in the same very dangerous position as all those who did not support Communism,Fascism or Nazism and all fair minded people must be vigilant to protect them and ensure their safety.
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Hiya Sebastian… or whatever name you are using today! 😃
I spotted your comment about wanting to meet with a friend of mine John Mcknight with a TV crew to meet with a couple of BF members. I passed this info on to John, his exact words were ” Like I’m interested in meeting that prick? I’m after Golding, end of. ”
I will spare you from what he then called you…. 😂
How very unfortunate for you that my friend does not want to meet with you.
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Typical comment by an ex navy thicko and thug who makes comments about people he has never met and whose intellect is far superior to his own( I doubt if he could even register on an IQ test!).
I have already stated on many posts that my opinion of BF is now as low as probably any anti-biffer on EDF particularly after its utterly shambolic and laughable “performance” at Dudley but a reaction to my invitation to open McKnights prejudiced mind to ideas which EBF might find useful against BF has only elicited an utterly biased and very stupid response from a former sailor who has an overweening belief that he is important in life! Do please be so kind as to pass on my remarks.
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Kathleen, not being totally au fait with the procedures on here I believe that it may have been that Mr McKnight’s comments may have been directed at Sebastian. This does in no way change my mind about that jolly old tar as I have a huge admiration for Sebastian for whose intellect and grasp on the subjects he debates are far superior to mine apart from his technical grasp on Islam.
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Oh my word David Woolmer I do declare… Please excuse me pissing myself laughing!
Did you forget to sign out of your David Woolmer profile and sign into your Sebastian Milne one, when YOU replied to my comment to Sebastian regarding John Mcknight’s response to his offer of a meet up, as though you were Sebastian? 😲 Oh what a silly ninny boy you are. 😂
Just as I was thinking you were a double act too. Nope you are one and the same person or persons. I do hope you realize trolling pages and talking and arguing to yourself doing so is a sign of something, but do seek advice for that. 😃
Do rest assured I have let John know and I will let you know when he gets back to me… Do excuse me, I need to dash to the loo before I pee myself laughing!
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Kathleen, many thanks for your post. I still cannot work out if you believe that I and Sebastian are one and the same. I must admit to disliking Mr McKnights atack on Sebastian -or me?! but he is to be applauded to call out Paul Golding and ask some very searching questions. I very much hope that your ex navy chum does not spend too much time pursuing PG as I reckon that BF will just implode sooner rather than later and save Mr McKnight a lot of trouble.
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Sebastidavid. You referred under your David persona to the invitation you made as Sebastian. Post under a pseudonym if you like, that’s fine.
But sitting there typing effusive compliments to yourself is somewhat creepy.
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DB I have no idea whatsoever what the hell you are talking about.Which “compliments” do you refer to?
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Hello David Woolmer, My comment was for Sebastian as it started “Hiya Sebastian” and was in reference to his wanting to meet with John McKnight.
Yet strangely you David were the one who answered as though you were Sebastian! Now I do hope that clears that up.
As to my commenting to you now, I said I would get back to you David Woolmer ( or whatever your name is ) once I had heard back from John McKnight.
The following is John McKnight’s response to you David:
“Absolute comedy gold! He’s not very good at this ‘trolling thing’ is he? I’m sure the reason he made such a mistake was because of his high IQ.”
And just for reference to you David my own response to you after calming down from laughing so much is…. Having such a high intelligence level that you think you have, you must be what is commonly known as an intellectual dumbass! 😂
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Kathleen PUFFED UP, it is obvious that you and your jolly OLD ex tar -and by gum doesn’t he look it,and as though he could do with a long soak in a bath and look as smart as the hated Paul Golding does, could learn a much needed lesson in humility and manners. I have not insulted either of you two nonentities in the way you have me and I do hope so much that EBF does not have any more like you two failed comics crawling out of the woodwork which is where your natural habitat is. Actually McKnight looks as though he hasn’t left many of the weevils behind.. Are you sure that he is not a reincarnation of a seaman who mutinied on the Bounty?? I wont waste my time with reading any more of your utterly worthless posts.
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David, firstly I resent being called stupid. For one your analogy does not even work on any level – of course you wouldn’t hate an artist for a painting they created that you don’t like. Religious hatred does not work like that in any way. My observation is that intense religious hatred results in the persecution of followers – you don’t even have to look long to see exactly what I mean, just look at the Britain First Facebook page, look at the BNP, EDL and other such groups. Heck look at the average on-line theist vs atheist debate. Even factoring in “internet anonymity” the point still stands as these are often clearly the deep seated views held. Of course as with most things there are exceptions to the rules but in my experience in 98 – 99% of cases where people express such views you don’t have to scratch much below the surface to see that hatred directed at followers and more often than not their is a racist component to that hate.
As for Islam itself being a Christian I fundamentally believe they have some wrong ideas but we’ll leave that here as I’m not open to a discussion on this here. I recognise that there are passages in the Quran that aren’t particularly nice however not only do you need them in context but you have to recognise that there are passages in the Bible which are similar yet clearly your feelings there are not as strong. What your beliefs are regarding religion as a whole is irrelevant to this. This is about your loathing of Islam and nothing else. It is people interpretations of the books that matter and the vast majority of Muslims I know are after the same thing the majority of us are after – peace, the right to carry out their faith without the fear of persecution/torture etc. There are many cases of Imams and other religious figures and followers of Islam rejecting ISIS and other extreme groups who were just as appalled as we were at 9/11, the 7/7 London bombings and the Rigby execution to name just 3 major incidents, I’m sure EBF will be more than happy to direct you to such material if your struggling to find those posts on the Facebook page. There are also plenty of stories which have put Christians in general to shame because Muslims have acted more like Christians than the Christians have. I hope my point is clear and more important you understand the logic behind the point.
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grizzlyvamp it would not matter to me WHAT you are for me to insist that the Qur’an is not acceptable as a guide on how to live one’s life. I thought that I had already given you chapter and verse as to the ONLY version of the Qur’an accepted by the four Islamic schools of Jurisprudence led by the Al Azhar University in Cairo. So are you not being somewhat disingenuous when you talk about interpretations to suit divers indidividual muslims? To even begin to have credence in an IDEOLOGY where even in virtually ALL versions Muhammad comes across very strongly as a mass murderer(He killed all the men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe),a war lord,a pedophile, a misogynist, and a slave taker You say you are a Christian so please stop quoting the Bible which is mainly for the Jews and delve into the New Testament which is for Christians and the entire world. How can the Uthman or other copies of that horrid book compare to Christ’s wonderful Sermon on the Mount,the perfect guide on how to be and how to live one’s life. There are also far more stories of Christian aid and charity outweighing Muslim and that of all other faiths together. When there are disasters in Muslim countries which are often deadly and claiming a multitude of lives and the ruination of homes it is invariably the UK and other Christian countries which rush to help and donate money and vital supplies-FACT! The Arab League and fellow Muslim countries are generally nowhere to be seen viz the Ebola crisis. Christ made helping the poor and sick the cornerstone of his teaching . Charity is also a feature of the Quran but it is not a cornerstone although SUBMISSION(a horrid word) is.
I am certainly not struggling to find information on the major incidents you mention. You,however,might be interested in googling JIHAD WATCH and learning about the literally DOZEN terrorist incidents happening almost on a daily basis. Jesus warned us about “false prophets” and I include the Prophet Muhammad in that context. Ernest Ronan the C19 French expert on ME ancient languages(he could read the Qur’an in ancient arabic), philosopher, historian,explorer and writer wrote: “Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror.To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him” I rest my case.
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David, all respected Christian schools of thought state you cannot ignore the Old testament to the New testament and so your entire argument falls to pieces. I will also point out that through out the New Testament Jesus says he came not to remove or negate the law (ie the Old testament) but to fulfil it which clearly challenges your theology on this. There are plenty of New testament references from Paul and Peter and others which back this up further despite the fact that it is only Jesus’ word that matters but I mention it just in case you require further evidence. My personal interpretation is that on the cross Jesus removed the consequences of the law for those who believe but that does not mean that your sin is without consequence in this world, not that it should matter though. I would also point out that at no point did I quote scripture at you merely referring you to Old testament scripture which as I point out is as valid as point someone to New testament scripture.
You cannot have things both ways either the Quran is unacceptable or it is acceptable to the point of tolerance. You have been completely inconsistent in your view of Islam and Muslims throughout this discussion. Besides David was an adulterer and murderer, Noah was a drunk, Jacob was a liar, Peter betrayed Jesus by denying him 3 times and Paul was a well known persecutor of Christians before the road to Damascus which he was on to go and persecute more Christians before his encounter. Point is that key characters from the bible were in God’s eyes no worse than Muhammad. I reject Muhammad’s claims and believe those who accept his claims are misguided but I would never consider harming a Muslim for their belief.
As for the Muhammad was a paedophile claims for one the modern concept of being an adult/of consenting age has only been around for about 150/200 years. Before that the age you were considered an adult/allowed to drink, consent to sex/marriage etc was the age you hit puberty somewhere between 11-14 being a ball park. Whatever your view on if this was right or not is irrelevant as it was acceptable back then and therefore the social norm ie widely practised. Since the age of Aiysha is widely disputed but as far as I am aware it is generally acknowledged that she had been through puberty based on the above criteria he did nothing wrong irrespective of modern views and it is very clear that she was consenting. Therefore it is in my view that Muhammad would not have taken Aiysha the age he did (as I am under the impression she was under 16 when he took her to be his wife) due to modern conventional views. Far too often I see things from both the Quran and the Bible rejected because modern views/context are used to judge the scenario rather than the views/context of the time in which it was written in.
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I think some are so anxious to find someone/thing to blame that they don’t look closely at the inconsistencies. Some I think are justdownright racist and hide behind the keyboard. I suspect that some of the second tier such as Mr Lewis are true believers and will be devastated when the top ones move on. They are master manipulators.
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I think there’s a range, which is inevitable. Some ignore BF’s real agenda because they are happy with their methods; the hate is enough.
Some don’t concern themselves with the details for much the same reason.
Mostly, though, they fall for the lies. No difference if the liar is motivated by pure hate, pure profiteering or a mix of the two.
Unprovoked hatred has only one source; fear. That may sound at a tangent to the question but it does provide an answer of sorts. Racists are more prone to fear. They fear learning that they’ve been lied to so they go easily into denial. They lash out when challenged. They overcompensate, sometimes violently.
I doubt I’m the soft touch lefty I get accused of being because if I were, I should find a way to feel sorrier for them than I do.
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David, its not real mate. We class 2 Algerian brothers who murder a cartoonist as terrorism yet embrace Israel as an ally for killing 3500 women and children with fast jets, missiles, tanks, gunships. Where is the parity of justice ?
The latest figure from the International Institute for Strategic Studies is there are less than 40,000 so called Islamic “terrorists” and I use that word loosely
meaning around 0.0000023% of the Global Muslim community
What is being played out is the same narrative used by the nazis the ultimate control your loss of freedoms and the control of the worlds natural resources, nothing more.
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The ONLY true democracy in the ENTIRE Middle East is Israel. The ludicrous contention about Gaza and Palestine is truly absurd. Palestine IS the modern Jordan and was inhabited by Jews since 2000BC! It was a UN treaty which gave Israel its mandate. Arabs have virtually equal status, they can become judges,lawyers and top business people. Many join the IDF. Christian arabs are the best educated in the whole of the ME. Very close to Israel is the Sultanate of Oman where I lived for two years.Racial discrimination is not permitted in its constitution.Even when I was there in 1981/82 the King,Sultan Qaboos Bin Said Al Said(Cambridge and RMA Sandhurst trained and educated) had a Jewish accountant! I had a wonderful time in that gorgeous country as I did in Israel and our Holy Land.
When all’s said and done there are only a handful of Islamic countries which provide ALL the problem muslims and naturally they are the most extreme. Pakistan is almost certainly the most extreme and has provided 90% of all the Muslims in UK gaols and grooming gangs. I would thoroughly approve a ban on any more families immigrating from that country.
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Sebastian, your arithmetic is superb but 40,000 Islamic terrorists-and very rapidly growing- is one heck of a lot of would be killers on the loose. As we have seen even in the Muhammad Cartoon Exhibition and Contest in Garland,Texas the other day it only takes TWO to bring out the SWAT Team and have $50,000 worth of other security heavily involved.
Professor Sam Harris in the USA,an acknowledged authority on militant Islam has calculated that Islamic armies since the death of Muhammad in AD 632 have been responsible for the deaths of 250 MILLION people.
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I mainly agree with David. Flooding people’s news feeds with anti-biffer memes and articles is counter-productive. I tend to find that knowing the people posting biffer links allows you to challenge them individually in a thought through way. I like to dip in occasionally with my own news feed so only like a few, but share only the articles that will appeal or speak to others.
I think that there are still people out there who
1. Don’t even realise they’ve liked the page
2. Think they’re justified because they agree with the sentiment of the honey trap (these are the ones who accuse of stirring). I suspect that the only cure for them is a close encounter with the biffers on patrol.
The biggest problem is the lack of alternative comment on their pages. How do we combat that?
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Kevin it is refreshing for me to find even just ONE blogger on here agreeing with something I have put forward. I reckon that if Jayda Fransen was to take over the leadership of BF then that group might be persuaded to desist from its utterly unpleasant attitude to muslims and attack the fast creeping Islamization of the UK instead. The lady is far brighter than Paul Golding and interviews extremely well. She could be the eyes and ears of the authorities and alert them to dangerous individuals and extremist mosques. I know,I know it is a wacky idea but militant/extremist Islam is being very badly combated by the authorities,including MI5,the Anti-Terrorist Squad at New Scotland Yard and the Home Office.
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David its being that “badly combated” that we have had 2 attacks in 10 years yes ?
compare that with the campaign against PIRA if you would please,
This means (1) there is no credible threat (2) police and security services are all over them
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Sebastian I bow to your superior knowledge on this matter. However,do you not believe that real and foiled attacks by muslim terrorists reported in France,Holland,Belgium, Denmark,Sweden and the UK will exponentially increase due to support and encouragement from ISIS and Al Qaeda?
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I’d only seen your first comment David, I don’t agree with the second. Racial hatred is akin to religious hatred. Hitler’s dislike of the Jews was borne out of jealousy of their business success, rather than their semitic features and that’s down to their religion not their race. You get BF/EDL/NF/NWI hating middle eastern people because they’re being stirred up by the likes of Jayda Fransen, who from video footage makes Paul Golding look relatively pleasant (key word – relatively).
I think that BF harassing Islamic extremists causes more problems and doesn’t solve any. It increases the publicity for them which means they:-
1. Need police protection (whether they deserve it is a different question)
2. Attract more followers
3. Through the persecution. & discrimination of BF validate their extreme opinions and teachings.
4. Get asked for comment by the press on religious matters instead of the majority of Muslims who disagree with them.
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I have taken the time to read most comments on Britain’s First Facebook page and I am disgusted with how these people can call themselves a fellow Brit like myself.
Whenever an article is posted on there page it always gets the same uneducated and delusion comments from there followers, I will give an example.
21 year old British Muslim girl kills herself and the family are caught trying to flee, they were sent back to the UK for police investigation and released without charge.
the idiots who follow Britain First had nothing constructive to say, no comments of sadness for the girl who killed herself or anything just because herself and the family were Muslim.
“Why did you send them back, just let them leave we don;t want them here” <– this is the kind of comments I read and its disgusting she was a human being and just because she was Muslim they disregarded her death as if she was an animal you had run over.
There is no such thing as Islamification it is just something the stupid throw around to justify there hatred. All these Muslim people want is a place to worship, and they can't even get that with how disgusting the British public react to it just because of there religion.
Everyone regardless of race or religion should have a place, a proper place to worship and practice there belief that is called equality.
Sadly for people of Britain First and other like minded fools equality in there mind only exist for those who believe in there ideas.
There party is no different than the Nazi party in Germany if you didn't follow them you were a traitor to the country, just like what BF say to those who think differently.
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Until I read your comment I did not realise that one could be SO wrong! I just have to say it is pure drivel.
Several well respected think tanks have produced articles on creeping shari’a across Europe and in 2014 the particularly well regarded Gatestone Institute prepared a damning report for the UK Government on the subject. Your next untruth refers to mosques. Whereas Christian churches of which there were literally thousands across the Middle East for 350 years before Islam was founded in 7014 AD have been desecrated in most Islamic countries and Christians denied permission to repair them or build another in their place! In the UK it is extremely rare for applications for a mosque-even a mega mosque-to be turned down.So much for your dozy idea of equality and fairness.Apart from anything else in the UK nobody blows up or desecrates mosques.
I have finally come to the conclusion that Britain First go way over the top but to equate them to the Nazi Party(and by the way the BF are NOT a Party) is just ludicrous. ISLAM,however is an ideology far more cruel, misogynistic and totalitarian even than Communism and Nazism. and the punishment for leaving it is death! And,the word is THEIR not there.
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I am not denying that some followers of Islam take there religion to seriously or better yet warp it to a point where use it as an excuse to kill people who do not follow there faith.
Fact of the matter is that there is a big different between educated believers and those who run on blind faith. I know many Muslim people and they have been more kind and well spoken when compared to my native British people, not one Muslim I have spoken to has ever wanted Shari’a law in the UK as the point of them moving here was to get away from that kind of thing. They want the freedom that we all take for granted yet we want to deny them that out of pure fear and not understanding what is different.
It is the stupidity of people who group every Muslims under the same banner that cause the problems, every single BF post I see reflects this by saying “All Muslims” instead of just the bad ones who want to change the country to be more like there own.
Your argument on the state of churches in Islamic countries isn’t really fair, you leave out the fact that those countries are not democratic and like I said before are heavily religious based as well. So of course a foreign religion would not be wanted or welcome in that county this is the big difference between the UK and them.
the UK is meant to be a country of equality where everyone’s rights are respected. I have no problem with any religion wanting to have a place to worship there god, there is no logical reason to oppose it at all.
You want to live here ? go ahead
You want a place to pray ? Fair enough
You want your laws in out country ?… No if you don’t like our laws then go back home.
I also like how you did not mention how in 2011 a white man who was released from prison tried to set up a sharia law zone in the UK
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html
I think you would agree with me that this kind of thing is disgusting and should not be allowed to exist, but again the article clearly states that the Muslims who want it are extreme Muslims who came here to push there ideas on us.
how come it is easy for us to point the finger at ALL Muslims instead of the ones who are doing it on purpose ?
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Aaron I cant get up your post to comment properly. However, I still dismiss your argument on churches versus mosques. Churches as I have already explained were in THEIR thousands 350 years before Muhammad was born let alone founded Islam. SO mosques were in FACT the alien structures.
Mosques therefore based on exactly the same logic are alien structures in Britain a country which has been Christian since St.Augustine converted King Aethelred the Saxon King of Kent to Christianity in 601AD! David Cameron in his Christmas address stated clearly that Britain is a Christian country. In my opinion the UK is extremely-and perhaps foolishly -generous to Islam and Muslim’s demands on mosques,halal food,shari’a courts, the wearing of full face veils, the provision of separate swimming pools for muslims, separate entrances for women and men in mosques and the separation of the two sexes in university halls-Need I go on for the next three or four lines to describe other DEMANDS not requests. Can you begin to imagine what would happen to a deputation of Christians making ANY demands in front of the King’s palace in Saudi Arabia?? Britain has welcomed Jews,Sikhs and Hindus into this country and THEIR synagogues,and temples and yet it is only Muslims who are loath to integrate,learn English,respect our Judeo-Christian religion and culture, and respect our 800 year(Magna Carta) English Law and the increasing demand for shari’a courts. Fairness and equality are not words that have a place in this debate!
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They dont think, they are driven by fear and anger meaning they are “propelled,” & manipulated they willingly surrender to the ideology. They take on a lower group consciousness ( a low vibration). this is an addictive state given its unreal. they externalize all that anger on to Islam, it use to be on to the Black community and before that the Jewish community. Fear is a toxic force and anger makes them feel alive. They become the ideology basically. We also have the issue that they are (and im not being stereotypical), of very low intelligence. Many of them are also in addictive processes. Steve Lewis is a compulsive over eater, chain smoker and very co-dependent. He cannot manage his emotions and eats on them. Golding is simply evil, Fransen im unsure about as yet what her drivers are and welcome any insight as from a cognitive level she does have a form of intelligence but emotionally and spiritually she is an enigma, her eyes do have an evil fire in them mind you(hate) . . It would be SIMPLE to destroy Britain First and could be done in 90 days. So to close they dont believe, in anything, they fear which is the opposite of belief. paradoxical but true. keep up the very good work it is a pleasure to read. thank you for your service.
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Sebastian, I can assure you that Jayda Fransen is one switched on lady. As for hateful eyes do you not find your comment at least unproveable if not ridiculous! She recently stood up very well to a stupid BBC newsreader and put her case forward extremely lucidly. As far as BF are concerned may I suggest that you save yourself and others on EBF time and trouble and leave BF to self explode. To allow them at least some latitude and even praise? they have dealt with the toxic Islam Patrols in Tower Hamlets and upset the noxious Anjem Choudary and Abu Izzadeen when the authorities,the Home Office and the police flunked it. I would tolerate BF if they opposed Islam and sympathised with muslims having to kowtow to the nastiest ideology on earth comparable to Communism and Nazism.
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David, lets discuss (1) “switched on Lady,” perhaps we have different benchmarks for that. I have given a number of interviews to CNBC “the Power Lunch” on matters relating to my former specialization in the financial markets meaning I would brief on behalf of the financial institution I use to work for in Singapore. Fransen “vibrated” her voice was being controlled and she was awash with anger. She also doesnt orate she dictates. Watch Obama present, thats orating she dictates. She also doesnt believe a word of what she is saying given the disconnect between her cognitive and emotional levels hence the hate. (2) David if you believe that Golding patrols in Tower hamlets deterred Choudarys then you need to change your medication mate. The prison sentences Choudaries minions received were responsible for the death of the so called Sharia patrols so no the police didnt flunk anything. “toxic Islam” funny I dont see that anywhere and Ive spent allot of time in the UAE and Bahrain and had many amazing Islamic clients as a banker. Toxic islam yes ? Know much about Islamic finance because thats is as far from toxic as it gets id take a Sharia banking product any day because “usury” is prohibited. . Whats toxic my friend s the fear golding and choudary sell to their minions which then feeds both the cult leaders egos. Praise BF for what ? stealing money from the very brave men and women who defend our way of life, or invading Mosques and terrorizing old Gentlemen or trying to turn London into Londonderry. Reflect on this, meditate on it, breath, allow it into your heart and dont respond on impulse or anger or ego.
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Sebastian Milne I have a question for you
given you time in the UAE and Bahrain how peaceful / violent would you say Islam is ?
I have been in a relationship with a Muslim woman for a few year, while she was born and raised in Europe her parents were from Iran & Iraq as such there views and opinions on there religion differ.
She being raised in the west while being a proud Muslim does not believe that all the rules should be followed anymore as they are old and don’t work in our ever changing society
She even took the time to tell me about the Qur’an and how its message depends on how you interpret it as such she can see nothing evil or hostile in it again non believers. .
Her parents on the other hand are very old fashioned following there religion to the book to the point where they tried to break us up.
I don’t get where people get this fear of Islam when everyone I meet who follows it are some of the nicest people iv known.
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Aaron I have a young Son mate and a Wife. There are no safer countries for Women and children and im not being cliched. The Muslims I know who practice ISLAM are chilled out people. yes they have radicals but so do we
Now my experience of Persians (Iranians) is the same., Iran hasnt invaded another country for over 200 years
mate there are wronguns, criminals, bigots, crooks in all religions but my personal experience of living in Muslim nations is so good ! OMG so safe, so family focused, accepted Women are advised not to prance around in bikinis but thats only correct given its a Muslim nation.
I also dont get the mass fear around Islam.
I also dont get all the obsession the ideology of golding and his minions have re Islam and sexual abuse. In Islamic nations if someone messes around with children they hang, same with rapists. agree also re some of the nicest people I love the saying InshAllah means we can all relax and take it easy 🙂
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Hello Blighty Steve… I see you are back and calling yourself Sebastian now. How dare you! I took great pains in giving that name to my little brother as a middle name, and I have spent the past 30 years with him blaming me for naming him after the neighbours cat! So give it back and get your own name…. Don’t make me cyber slap you, again! 😂
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Aaron Hi! I look forward to your posts more than any others as you display so little- if any- bias about anyone or any thing. AS I have stated in another post I have studied Islam from the Qur’an( their holy book) , the Hadith(sayings and deeds of Muhammad) and Sunnah(tradition of the Prophet) for 15+ years. The often quoted mistake about the Qur’an is that there are hundreds of versions all saying different things. The ONLY version that the leading school of jurisprudence the Al Azhar University in Cairo will allow as the only GENUINE one is that collated by Caliph Uthman in around 760 AD some 30 years after Muhammad died. This version is an extremely violent one. I wont unless you ask me to in a later post give you the chapter and verses but they call for all Jews to be exterminated- they are referred to as “apes and pigs”, for Infidels(non-muslims) to be “struck at their necks until dead” and for all infidels to SUBMIT to Allah or pay a special tax(jizzya), live like dhimmies(second class citizens) or be killed. Bless you in your comments on Muslims in general. The big problem as I see it is that so-called “moderate” muslims are not considered proper muslims and would face death by orthodox muslims just like non-muslims. So,as you so rightly said we must take great trouble to protect these muslims who fully intend to integrate,observe our English Law dating from Magna Carta in 1215,respect our Judeo-Christian religion and culture, do not set up ghettos and Islamic no go areas and certainly deplore the musim grooming gangs in Rotherham and many other cities all this giving “our” muslims a totally unfair name. I do hope that my post is of help to you?
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Hey David
I always try to keep an open mind on any and all issues, all thought what I currently think about people, places, religion and so forth are all from my own life experiences.
While I can claim that I have never met a “bad” follower of Islam I do know other people have had the opposite encounter, yet it baffles me why we as a person are so eager to blame the whole for the actions and disgusting behavior of the few.
Even if the Qur’an is violent in its original form humans in general are very violent with or without it, the amount of conflict between ourselves throughout history shows that without knowledge we are no better than animals.
I do not label myself as an Atheist but I just do not see the point of religion in any way. In Christianity they tortured and burned people at the stake for being a witch which conventionality makes them in league with the devil.
In my eyes all the church was doing was removing the more educated, the people who discovered that certain plants in nature can heal a wound or cure an ailment the real people who were doing “good” were killed.
I always like the phrases “knowledge if power” or “The pen is mightier than the sword” With knowledge comes understanding and with it the ability to move forward as a species and as a people. Religion on the other hand goes against this as they do not need you to know anything just have faith in there god and you shall be saved as long as you live how they tell you, blind and ignorant.
This is probably way of topic but I say all this as I feel these “new” peaceful Muslims are those who have knowledge, those who have looked at the Qur’an and it wrong or out of date for the modern world.
The Muslims I have been lucky to know have always made me feel there version of Islam is amazing, During the time of fasting they have said they do it so that they may understand the feelings of those less fortunate, those without the ability to eat a basic meal.
If they can’t fast they go out and do charity work helping the poor and needy while I get this from British people “I ain’t giving no one £2 to help someone in another country why not spend that money here instead”
In the end people who desperately cling to old religious texts over time will find themselves unable to live in the current world, I want to believe that as a species we are moving towards unification where we see each other as just people not separated by our skin colour, origin or faith but just one race and that is human.
If not then we doom to repeat the past and as technology gives us more ways to kill each other it is only a matter of time until we destroy ourselves in the name of a god or a country.
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As usual Aaron you make many good points. I am a deeply flawed Christian .My life is littered with things I should not have done and those I should have done.Yet nobody in history has delivered such a truly wonderful exposition on life and how it should be lived than Jesus Christ with his gorgeous Sermon on the Mount(St.Mathew 5) May I take the liberty of asking you to read it, it is a way of life that all human beings should follow whether they are religious or not. ” But I say unto you,love your enemies,bless them that curse you,do good to them that hate you and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you”
It is a sad fact that Islam has always been an ideology that together with Communism,Fascism and Nazism has been responsible for hundreds of millions deaths. The eminent expert on militant Islam Professor Sam Harris has calculated that Muslim armies since the death of Muhammad in AD732 have been responsible for 250 million deaths. This is understandable only if this tragedy is connected to the ORIGINAL and only legitimate Caliph Uthman Qur’an.As the incredibly gifted C19 French expert on ME ancient languages ,philosopher,historian and writer, Ernest Ronan wrote: ” Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror.To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him”
Your happy,kind and pleasant Muslims are,unfortunately,following a Quran which makes them in the eyes of all powerful orthodox muslims, Anjem Choudary,Abu Izzadeen, ISIS,Al Qaeda,Boko Haram,Al Shabaab,Hezbollah and Hamas to be as much to be killed or forced to submit as any non-muslims!
Sir Winston Churchill,by common consent the greatest ever Englishman fought the Mahdi and his fuzzy wuzzies in the Sudan in the 1890s. In his famous book of 1899, The River War he wrote ” Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog” and ” Islam is the strongest retrograde force in the world” William Gladstone,one of our greatest PMs once held up a copy(Uthman) of the Quran in the House of Commons and declared “As long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world” Finally I urge you to google the website JIHAD WATCH and learn of the horrors it unfolds. I rest my case..
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Kathleen Im glad your Brother shares my name. I am not however Stephen. Im also not into being slapped thanks but thanks for the kind offer.
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Looool. Funny I didn’t call you Stephen! But besides the point. We know your name is not Steve or Stephen, nor is it Sebastian… at least not unless it’s your middle name! And don’t tell me you got yours from a neighbours cat…. loool I did however say that you should get your own name, you know the one you seem to be too afraid to use… Graeme was it I think. As for the slap you’re welcome, and you are such a prude… spoilsport!
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Kathleen its certainly an interesting strategy when the ideology you have allowed to become your reality is attacked dispassionately with logic attack, not the logic but the individuals name. Fascinating logic don’t shoot the messenger comes to mind. I also don’t take kindly to threats of violence either virtually or real but again that’s what the ideology has done to you. It’s fascinating in psychological terms its like a group ego defence mechanism I suppose in basic terms it is as much cult as ideology Whose ideology is it anyway you have allowed to become your reality ? Goldings. Fransen, Dowson, Griffin, or Hitler. I am at a loss however in relation to the cat, explain please.my BB updates hourly hence the delay and its bedtime.
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Oh dear… Now here comes your usual punch line of Psychological claptrap Blighty, sorry I mean Sebastian. You do realize you are not fooling anyone, the nuances in your speech pattern and terminology uses gives you away far too easily. Funny you mention threats of violence, a few have been made to some friends of mine recently… but hay ho. But here lets see if we can cut your trolling short shall we. Ah yes here we go, you knew someone called Stephen Mckinney whom died in NI in 1988 whilst you were serving in the UDR, you served 3 tours in NI, according to you you have a club in london and you so seemed to enjoy investigating Bunny la rouche and threatening EBF with outing them…. How am I doing so far, I know I have left loads out, not to worry though I am sure you will display those at some point soon.
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Don’t worry David this site is being weird with me for some reason.
I totally agree with you on everything you said David I really do, like I said before a place of worship is what every religion should be able to have in the UK anything else though I would say no to.
I am not a religious people and I really see no point in its existence in this day and age but I respect other people’s beliefs all the same.
my family are what you consider normal my mother does not work due to looking after my brother who is special needs, while my dad is retired having served in the Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) in the 50’s – 60’s.
My dad fought in Egypt and even after everything he has seen he to is not happy with how we the British people are treating Muslims.
Like you said it is only Muslims who are refusing to integrate, and it is those Muslims I would say need to go back home or learn to live in the UK like British people.
However many Muslims integrate fine because they came here to live like British people and those are the Muslims who are never represented by anyone.
I ask you David why is no one standing up for the Muslims who stand behind this country like we do and want to keep Britain as it is ?
We as a people need to stop labeling all Muslims as the same and properly separate the ones who are causing all this trouble and want to change the UK into something it is not. And yes the government need to put a foot down and say NO to all these stupid demands.
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David, Britain First really didn’t rid the East End of sharia law patrols, which you credit them with in a early post. They did come down here twice with a jeep and make video – two years after the police arrested the guys in the videos that they repost over and over again.
As the theme of this thread is lies, can I ask how much you questioned their claims before repeating them? How much are you willing to accept my own claims, as a resident of Brick Lane for twenty years, that their propaganda visits were purely that and they have suckered you in?
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Hi John, many thanks for your timely post. Actually, BF’s ludicrous “performance” at Dudley when its promised 1000-2000 marchers shrank to the ludicrous sight of more police than BF supporters has destroyed its credibility for me. Your tenure of Brick Lane obviously means that you understand the position there perfectly. I am confident that within a relatively short period of time their organisation will implode
Their demise will not,however,stop me from using my deep and practical knowledge of militant Islam to do my best to open the eyes of many on here to its dangers..
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ONE for the Christian Biffers
Hating people is like burning down your own house to get rid of a mouse.
—Harry Emerson Fosdick
Hate is like an illness. It steals our hope, our love, our relationships. Hate puts distance between people. Hate can give us a false sense of power. Do I use hate to make myself feel important? Hate also leaves us open to being controlled and manipulated meaning our reality is no longer conscious.
To be spiritually and emotionally free and enlightened we must let go of hate. Hate and Love don’t mix. Hate doesn’t let us connect to God.
Christ taught us to live with love and respect. We’re taught that if someone treats us wrong, we still should be respectful in our response. Why? Because we’re changed by our actions. If we act with hate, we become hateful. If we act in a respectful way, we become respectable.
Hate is the drug of those who are afraid. God , help me to be free from hate today.
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Having seen the light as did Paul on the way to Damascus I have abandoned BF and found many on here whose words and work I applaud,yours Thomas I find them inspiring!
Let us ALL bear in mind Christ’s words when we look at BF and oppose other like organisations.
“The greatest love a man can have for his fellow man is to tell the truth and be hated for it”
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Can you provide a source, along with the version of the Bible which you have used, for that quote? I am sure that those who are not so presumptuous as to consider themselves experts but have some knowledge of the Bible would like to have this gap in their knowledge filled as it seems that it cannot be found in any of the usual definitive sources of Biblical quotes.
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Yes i think the average follower of britainfirst is being misled and is not aware of the total lies they are fed. As a muslim myself i had never heard
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Yes i think the average follower of britainfirst is being misled and is not aware of the total lies they are fed. As a muslim myself i had never heard of taqiya or whatever its called and if i hadnt enough sense i would just believe the rubbish on britain first about what it is. Same with fgm… As a pakistani my husband had never even heard of it – because its an african cultural issue nothing to do with islam. Its only the recent influx of somalians to this country that have brought this issue to light. Pakistani muslims have been here decades but no fgm problem has been mentioned. If i didnt have this knowledge and didnt know better i would believe britain first. Problem is their followers surround themselves with same prejudiced groups and people so they never experience a viewpointn
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Lady Bob I am extremely surprised that being a practising? muslim your husband has not come across TAQIYA. It is a dispensation from Muhammad used mainly by Shias generally in a dispute with Sunnis or non-muslims whereby a muslim can deny his or her faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts specially when they are in fear or at risk of persecution. I have no idea what BF say about it but it is one of the least reputable aspects of Islam leading up to many disputes and lack of trust in debates and arguments. You can take comfort in the FACT that BF have so little credence now that Taqiya is the least of their worries! In any case I just cannot see that you or your husband would even think of using such a dispensation.
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As usual, with Taqiya, context is all. If any Muslims would like to correct me on this then please do, but my understanding of the concept is that a Muslim can deny or renounce their faith if their life is threatened ie. they have been captured and threatened with death for being a Muslim or refusing to renounce their faith. Taqiya allows them to do so without fear of punishment in the afterlife. Likewise, non-Halal food is permissable if there is no other source of food to sustain them. Funny, for what Biffers refer to as a “death cult” they seem quite open to bending the rules to avoid death…
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What were you going to say following “never heard!??
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A viewpoint other than their own. They fail to see the ‘normal muslims’ among society because they are so brainwashed that they cant understand we are just normal people same like them going about our daily lives.
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Lady Bob, one aspect of Islam I really hate is that a Muslim woman is not supposed to shake the hand of an Infidel man like me.In the Qur’an Muhammad also states that ” you(muslims) are the best of all peoples” an encouragement to a supremacist attitude to all other religions and none. I should be most grateful for a response from you on these two points.
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Stupid iphone keyboard posted my comment before i finished
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It is a shame that Pakistan is so extreme in its vision of Islam. More problems arise from Pakistan than almost any other Muslim country.
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My initial impression of Britain first followers that go into indepth discussions about the quran,this hadith that hadith and all things islamic, is that if they have to gain all their knowledge of islam from books instead of just meeting normal everyday people around them who practice islam then they will never get a true knowledge of islam. Im talking about the britain first followers that say things like ive studied the quran etc…And if you have a set agenda before you start reading these books then you will naturally only seek out that information on the net or books that agrees with your agenda. Why not instead visit a mosque? Start a normal convo with a muslim at work or near where you live? If u cant find one then u cant possibly say we are taking over- if you’ve never met a muslim?!
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Bob, a very well reasoned post,thank you. If i were convinced that I would be able to ask the imam why planning permission was given for SO many mosques whilst churches throughout Islam which were built 350 years before Islam was invented were being systematically destroyed and Christian Copts being attacked whilst IN their churches which are not permitted to be rebuilt! Also if I would be permitted in my country where my ancestors have lived since Norman times would be permitted to shake a Muslim woman’s hand-as though that would be a red letter day in my life! Why on earth then would I bother to visit a mosque. I would far rather have a chat with a group of muslims and ask them many questions about your holy book and find out what THEY think of it. I have met at least 20 muslims.
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I genuinely believe that the biffer crowd are a mixture of sheep and straight up bigots/racists. Some of them will share a post that shows a Muslim looking person committing a crime, because they see so many come up on BF and assume that most criminals are muslims. These are the sheeple. They get told what to think and their ignorance lets fear filter into hatred. It’s how the nazis turned a large amount of people against the Jews in the 30’s. Back then, Jews were blamed for the financial hardship, and during to people ignorance, the believed what they were told and they began to hate. The same thing is happening now. If you tell somebody who is not strong minded, the same thing over and over again, they will believe it. However, most of these people won’t ‘chip in’. They see sharing propaganda as enough to fight this ‘evil’.
Then there are the straight up bigots/racists. These are the knuckledraggers that will pay for BF membership, tat, chipping in etc. These people are so filled with hatred that they cannot see that they funding somebody’s lifestyle, not a crusade. They genuinely think that every penny they give is helping the British people. They don’t believe anybody who loves Britain would be against BF. Only people who hate Britain disagree with BF. They claim, like BF, to be only against Islamic extremism, yet They will often write disgusting comments promoting the destruction of places of worship, the murder of young muslim children, genocide, etc then claim that it is in fact Islam that is evil. They will quite often finish their post with ‘no surrender’, an old school neo nazi slogan, originally aimed at irish catholics and sometimes ‘FTP’ (fuck the Pope), which has nothing to do with Islamic extremism.
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David – technically muslim women shouldn’t shake the hand of any man who isnt a ”mahram’ i.e isnt a son, brother father, husband and some other relatives, i cant remember the exact definition. Its not to do with infidels. I shake hands at interviews, and if a man puts his hand out then i shake it as it would be rude not to. I dont believe thats going to send me to hell! I wasnt aware the quran says muslims are the best of people but i guess if islam is the best way of life then yes the followers would be the best people. Does that mean i think im superior to you? Of course not. It is sad that people would use this to think they are superior to others but thats their crappy personality not the religion. The Western world thinks its way of life is superior all the time…you dont need religious backing to be full of yourself.
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https://exposingbf.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/dont-feed-the-troll/
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Theres so many mosques because there are so many sects within islam and each want their own mosque. E.g the mosques local to us are not of the sect our family belong to. We can still go to them, my husband goes to them because he is lazy and cant be bothered to drive further to the mosque of our own sect. My dad prefers to go our own which is further. There was recent talk of our community building a mosque closer to where we live so many of us wouldn’t have to travel so much. I dont think its about a takeover its just convenience. As for churches being ripped down by muslims in history – i cant really answer to that, history is as it is. Lots of atrocities have occurred. Mostly motivated by a greed for power and control rather than a specific religious idealogy. Isis militants, the ones at the top, all have power and politics motivating them rather than a specific verse of the quran. I honestly dont believe most muslims in uk are that interested in this stuff. We just want to live our lives as conveniently as possible. Doesnt everyone?
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People come to this country for a better standard of living. Better job, better hygiene, medical care, security, education, prospects for your children etc… Nothing to do with religion. The west does offer a better standard of life no doubt. Does that make it ideologically and morally superior? No! I dont know what the statistics are on percentage of christians in the middle east compared to percentage of muslims in uk so cant say if its disproportionate. Mosques are funded by their own community in the uk, if christians want a mosque in middle east they should be allowed to fund it and make it themselves. No one wants to see their country taken over by another race, but muslims arent taking over the uk, thats the point. Its all media hype and scaremongering. If there is a need for a mosque then it should be built…if theres a need for a church it should be built. Involve yourself in your church more if its important to you. If they were better supported they wouldnt be dwindling in numbers in the uk. Its just supply and demand.
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Fed up of this age at which Aisha got married thing. We’re talking about a time where there was no running water, no electricity a different world! Marriage wasnt love and romance roses and valentines gifts! U married ur daughter to a man who would be able to feed her and clothe her and protect her. Life expectance was incredibly short so yes people married very early compared to nowadays and to spouses who you wouldn’t describe as ideal but survival was the key, not a lovey dovey romance! The norm then is not the norm now!
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David, this is my response to defend my points but since we’ve been asked to stop feeding you I shall leave it there. To your point about Muhammad I will point you to Paul – one of the men who is generally attributed to bringing Christianity to Europe was a serial murder, was present at and approved of the stoning of Stephen. Matthew (one of the 12) was a tax collector – a profession by all accounts considered the very lowest in society and undoubtedly took a lot of money surplus to what was required for tax from family’s and women and children who could ill afford it just so he could line his own pockets. So no matter how you argue it Jesus himself hung out with very suspicious characters including someone he knew would later betray him to his death. I mentioned David, Jacob and Noah in my previous post as well and highlighted their flaws as well. At the end of the day in spite of his clear flaws Muhammad is no worse than any of the other men I mentioned and all of them were used by God and are known as men of God therefore your argument against Muhammad is deeply flawed.
As for the puberty point context is very important when looking at any religious text and in this case how it is supposed to be viewed from the perspective of when the piece was written. You have to apply the same contextual rules to all of the text not just little sections, you cannot just cherry-pick to suit your stance. What I mean is that the very context you use to justify the bible you have to then adjust to the context of the Quran. To give another example where the context is often misplaced is the bit where it appears that Jesus approved of slavery however the context behind it was that it was culturally common place for you to sell yourself if you could not afford to pay back your debts as a way of paying that debt. At the of the agreed time or 7 years (whichever came first) the slave was freed unless the slave chose to stay with their master and “bond” with them for life. So their were strict rules within the culture on what was acceptable and what wasn’t. I think I have made my point about context.
Finally if you loathe Islam then by extension you loathe everything about it from what it teaches to its morality and the core beliefs it entails. Therefore by natural extension anyone who believes these things (ie Muslims) and live out that belief must be loathsome. Now you have said you do not dislike Muslims who don’t try to kill you/harm you etc yet that does not fit in with your narrative of Islam as there must be different levels, just as there is with Christianity, meaning you are being entirely inconsistent in how you view Muslims and on that note I rest my case. I hope you take on board what I and others here have said and I bid you good night.
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A lot of the first generation migrants were grateful for the opportunity they had here. Which is why they put up with rubbish working conditions in factories, worked long shifts etc. even now polish, romanian etc. take on the crap jobs just to have a chance to stay here. But third generation migrants like myself dont feel like we still ‘owe’ this country a favour. Im grateful i was born here and not a war torn country elsewhere but why would i feel any more grateful than my colleagues at work who are of the indigenous population? We worked equally hard to get our jobs and pay our taxes and our parents did the same. Im glad this country lets people practice their religions as they wish, and thats what makes it so unique and a fantastic country, you should be proud to live in such a free country! Instead of being bitter about the lack of churches half way across the world and letting all this hate-mongering against muslims get to your heart. I wanted to point out that the average muslim in the uk just wants to get on with their life, has the same dreams and aspirations as ‘normal’ people – buy a dream house/car, for me its getting my kid to eat her fruit and veg! The britainfirst page feeds such a biased view of muslims and just reads too much into history of the prophet and verses of the quran that the followers think all muslims are like that and cant possibly be same as us. I dont think they realise they are being brainwashed. I hope that answers the original question in this blog and is my last comment on here.
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David, clearly you have failed to understand my fundamental point that no matter what Muhammad taught he was no less despicable in his actions than any of the men I listed, basically what you are telling me is is oh he was an awful person. You might as well tell me that Hitler was an awful person – durh! So were all the people I mentioned, even David who tried very hard to live up to God’s standard. You cannot deny that God has used Muhammad for good in spite of his mislead teachings (I’d rather think he was misguided rather deliberately and wilfully leading people away from the light). Are you trying to deny that Noah was a drunk or that David was an adulterer and a murderer? These men in spite of this were used by God as you kindly point out. My facts about the characters mentioned come directly from the bible and can be seen in their story and referenced throughout the New Testament.
To say that the Old testament is for the Jews and the New testament is for Christians is fundamentally flawed and dangerous to say the least. Why do you think Old testament scripture is found through out the New testament? For us to go, oh that’s not relevant any more? What do you think Ephesians 6 was talking about when it speaks of the sword of the Spirit – that is the word of God? Because it was referring to scripture – the God breathed, inspired word. That is all of God’s word not just some of, yes the New testament is important and holds answers but the Old testament confirms and foretells the New. In other words the Old testament is just as important to know and to read as the New. Many of the Psalms deeply impact many Christians and in fact non-Christians alike. Some of the key scriptures that have recurred in my life have been Old testament and hold as much weight as the New testament scriptures. But as stated there is plenty of New testament evidence that the Old testament should and in fact cannot just be forgotten and ignored like it didn’t happen. Anyway I think I have made my point here.
As for my facts about slavery Deuteronomy 15 v 12 is where I got the release your slaves after 7 years from and the New testament is peppered with comments about treating slaves as you would a servant. This comes back to context and the importance of the point that at that point history in that culture slavery was seen and treated in a very different light. In other words had Jesus been alive on Earth (for he is still alive in Heaven, well there is a lot of debate about his precise location but that’s not the point at all) he would not have said the same thing about slavery – in fact he probably wouldn’t have brought it up at all or in the case of human trafficking spoken against it.
As for your cherry-picking accusation I have done no such thing, I have taken the relevant parts of what I have been talking about and then put them into the context of the time they were written, which any good scholar will tell you you need to do when looking at any piece of factual writing, within the context of my argument. Anyway I feel like you are just baiting me. Sorry EBF I will leave it there.
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David, in my sleep deprived state I’m not even sure we are disagreeing any more. All those names you purported, whilst many of them would by most be considered perfect or damn near perfect I am sure most of them admitted they were anything but and were flawed humans just like anyone else. As for myself I have my own unique specialness of flawedness that I somehow manage to live out. I have a deeply ingrained belief in the better side of humanity and believe that it is always better to judge innocence until proven otherwise and all that. Basically I try to see the good in humanity even though half the time I struggle to see the good in myself – which could explain a few things. But I digress. Being a Christian isn’t about having it all together and anyone telling you otherwise is lying and leading you astray. If I am being honest I have been really struggling this year and it has been Britain First and EBF that has kept my core convictions about God alive and I’m nowhere near the end of the tunnel. I have to say these types of discussions does help to bring out the spirit.
My username actually spawns from the first board I actually joined and stems from the combination of grizzly bear and vampire. I liked it so much that it has kind of become my on-line persona though I’m not using it quite so much at the moment. As for my name I chose to remain anonymous on this site for various reasons and I choose to keep it that way should I start to regularly blog again. Ultimately at the end of the day any Christian view has to come from a place of love and that is distinctly lacking on the internet. Without love we are nothing, love is the source from which our faith comes from, it is what binds us together and why we have salvation. It is over used but John 3 v 16 really does say it all. Anyway sorry EBF we’ve been spamming your blog with our disagreement.
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It’s hard to get a consensus on what do they believe and why people support them. I’m sure they all have their own reasons, albeit similar to one another. My theory is that the majority get behind BF because they post things which “justify” their views. Whether or not they know the truth is probably irrelevant; I’m sure we’ve all noted that when you correct them, chances are they won’t respond. They are blissfully ignorant.
Exposing them to the truth leads to a cognitive dissonance within them, so I guess their defence mechanism is the equivalent of putting their fingers in their ears and shouting, “LALALALALA”. Examples are when they resort to calling us “looney lefties”, and what have you, as they they think it negates anything we have to say. So yeah, I think a lot of them are privy to being fed lies but their hatred enables them to twist them into what they think is a truth in order to justify their vile opinions.
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Terry,my comment has nothing to do with left-right wing but everything to do with division. The most militant protestors against BF are the generally accepted extremely rowdy and unpleasant UAF,often led by such as Wee Georgie Galloway, far-left Labour politicians and students who should no better because they very rarely know what the UAF stands for. For me, anyway, their clashes and the nastiness all round representing the very worst of both “wings” has reminded me in a minor way of the riots in Egypt before President Fatah al Sisi chucked out the Muslim Brotherhood. I hope so much that we do not see in Britain the scenes which have regularly created violent “protests” in Paris as those. after the Charlie Hebdo tragedy.
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If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. – Goebbels
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